gadgetlady

Ever seen that commercial where a referee is about to toss a coin and says, "Heads or tails?" and one guy responds, "Both"? Or the one where the woman tries to order a bagel that's both toasted and not toasted? I think Obama's been watching those commercials. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3LZNc_TP_o]YouTube - Shocking: Obama's Attack Ad On Himself[/ame]

Logically, two different issues. I have acknowledged McCain's behavior. You won't acknowledge Obama's.

I will stipulate to everything you say he says. I believe you 100%. I can't listen right now. I firmly believe Obama's was premeditated. He was very careful with his movements. I know you don't believe it, or at least you say you don't believe it; it's your right to feel that way. For the record, once again, I am not happy with McCain as the nominee; he was my dead last choice among the potential nominees, and I consider him, in this election, the lesser of two evils.

Show me one other time, in any of his speeches or forums or meetings, that he used his middle finger to scratch his cheek with. Just one. One eensy-teensy time.

I actually didn't watch the McCain videos because I can't watch YouTube in FireFox (the sound doesn't work and it's very annoying) and my kids are in the room (they've never heard language like that), but I am well aware of his language and I do believe it is disrespectful and objectionable. I find Obama's behavior equally bad because it is obviously pre-meditated (in other words, he practiced it and planned to do it) and not a heated outburst. I have called McCain's behavior objectionable. Will no liberal stand up and do the same about Obama?

You are all absolutely right about McCain's temper. I'm not afraid to admit the truth . . . are you?

Nor do you or any other of the liberals on this board. I'm waiting for someone to find me a clip of an Obama speech, interview, or anything else where he innocently uses his middle finger to scratch his cheek or wipe his mouth. There are plenty of videotaped speeches out there; I'm sure you'll be able to find it in a hurry. Until I see that, I will believe what you all know to be true but refuse to say.

Unlikely to happen, considering in many states you don't have to present identification to vote. BTW, any idea which side fought to defeat laws that require identification to vote?

There's got to be something that can be done. With the technology we have, the presence of fraud is ridiculous. Last night I watched . . . oh, never mind, here it is so you can watch it yourself: Breitbart.tv I don't care which way the fraud is going; it's fraud, and it makes a sham of democracy.

If you really think he was just wiping his mouth or scratching his cheek -- all three times -- why don't you try finding a time in any speech -- any one! -- where he uses the same middle finger when he's not talking about an opponent.

I don't think it's BS, and I don't think you think it is either. I think it's a deliberate pattern, and deep down inside Obama supporters are silently chuckling.

Stupid is as stupid does.

What a hero. In my play book, heroes don't flip other people off. Lest you think it was just a coincidence, watch all three: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBMdWxcFXQg]YouTube - Obama Flips Off McCain[/ame] [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoOFp-RDpvM]YouTube - Obama Flips Off Hillary Clinton? Slow Motion![/ame] [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pdKwBkDowU]YouTube - Barack Obama giving Hillary Clinton the finger??[/ame] I prefer a candidate who will bring respect and dignity to the office, not someone who has the mentality to publicly display childish obscene gestures.

Well, considering places like Madison County, Mississippi has 123% of their population registered to vote, voter fraud is a real issue. From Mississippi voter rolls filled with dead voters: - Ballotpedia October 28, 2008 Madison County, Mississippi has 123% more registered voters than people over the age of 18. 486 people on the list of registered voters are over 105. 190,000 new voters have registered for the 2008 election. Mississippi Secretary of State Delbert Hosemann says, "It is terrible. Combined with the fact that we don't have voter ID in Mississippi, anybody can show up at any poll that happens to know the people who have left town or died -- and go vote for them. Whenever we have a third party determined by payment, for example, as they did in Benton County -- 'walking-around' money -- and they determine what that vote is going to be, they've taken your vote, whether they may have voted like you would have or not, they've still thwarted the process and they've still taken your vote away from you."[1]

Back to the topic at hand (why people vote the way they do), I think this explains why a lot of people are voting for Obama. I just received it in an email: It's All About the Ice Cream The most eye-opening civics lesson I ever had was while teaching third grade in 2000. The presidential election was heating up and some of the children showed an interest. I decided we would have an election for a class president. We would choose our nominees. They would make a campaign speech and the class would vote. To simplify the process, candidates were nominated by other class members. We discussed what kinds of characteristics these students should have. We got many nominations and from those, Jamie and Olivia were picked to run for the top spot. The class had done a great job in their selections. Both candidates were good kids. I thought Jamie might have an advantage because he got lots of parental support. I had never seen Olivia's mother. The day arrived when they were to make their speeches Jamie went first. He had specific ideas about how to make our class a better place. He ended by promising to do his very best. Every one applauded. He sat down and ... Olivia came to the podium. Her speech was concise. She said, 'If you will vote for me, I will give you ice cream.' She sat down. The class went wild. 'Yes!Yes! We want ice cream. ' She surely would say more. She did not have to. A discussion followed. How did she plan to pay for the ice cream? She wasn't sure. Would her parents buy it or would the class pay for it? She didn't know. The class really didn't care. All they were thinking about was ice cream. Jamie was forgotten. Olivia won by a land slide. Every time Barack Obama opens his mouth he offers ice cream, and 60% percent of America reacts like nine year olds. They want ice cream. The other 40% percent know they're going to have to feed the cow.

It's always interesting to hear what people say when they think they're off the record and they really aren't. And they accuse conservatives of hateful speech? Watch this (caution: offensive language herein): [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ym0nyGyhjxw]YouTube - Obama-Supporting Libtalker Wants Joe The Plumber 'Dead'[/ame] Does anyone honestly think if McCain wins that someone like this will learn to "get along" with the "opposition"?

You are absolutely correct. My attempt to cull down, for simplicity's sake, the background of American slaves, was not comprehensive. There are many ways in which African slaves were brought to America. None of them represents how Obama got here.

You don't speak for me. You don't know my inner thoughts. So what you ascribe to me is hogwash, plain and simple. Hmmm. Interesting comment. Are you saying having Arab blood coursing through one's veins somehow affects one's political decisions? Your words, not mine. Because personally I don't believe genealogy necessarily impacts politics. Again, and maybe until I'm blue in the face: Obama's genealogy is not misinformation and lies.

I disagree. It doesn't matter what you "feel"; under this law, as I read it, they would not. Don't forget, in Massachusetts, when the same-sex marriage law required that all adoption agencies place babies with same-sex couples, Catholic Charities, which had been serving the community for over a hundred years, closed its doors. The law ignored the "religious freedom" aspect of the matter. For more information, go to Boston and ABC News: End of Adoptions as One Agency Protests Gay Parents (the first one's a little more comprehensive). Albeit a different issue, we should also recall that pastors in Canada have been arrested for condemning homosexuality in their churches. Here's just one link for that one: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=66704 The bottom line is we don't live in a vacuum. The people we vote for have the power to make or execute laws (depending on the political office). The laws they make have consequences, whether intended or unintended, on other aspects of public and private life. I don't think it's a big leap to see FOCA impacting private religious organizations in this manner.

Not too tough. You just have to enter the person's name and the word "geneology" in a web search. Some you might be able to easily guess, like Biden's being Irish Catholic, and so forth. What I was discussing is that Obama's followers often feel there is a commonality in considering him "African-American", while he is not "African-American" in the normal understanding of the term (descended from West Indies Africans brought over as slaves). Yeah, now that you know she's not talking about you, of course, she's free to use and promote the idea. What a joke. It comes back to bigotry, doesn't it? If you don't agree with Obama or point out anything about him that isn't PC, you must be a bigot. If I told someone I had Italian ancestry and they said they did too, I would then be quite surprised for them to tell me they were from Germany. If they told me they considered themselves Italian because Germany used to be under control of the Roman Empire, I would say, "Gee, most people who are German don't commonly define themselves as Italian." If I were running for political office and someone started calling me the first "Greek-American" running, they might be technically correct (because most Italians have some Greek blood), but I wouldn't accept the label because it would not be true as we understand the term "Italian-American" and "Greek-American". You can call me a bigot and a racist until the cows come home; that doesn't make it true. In fact, I would counter-claim that you are the real racist, because Obama's actual geneology seems to disturb you quite greatly.

BTW, Steve, back on FOCA just for a moment, I just read this in an email I received (emphasis mine): Both sides of the abortion debate readily admit the measure makes unlimited abortions throughout pregnancy a national law and legal right, and that it would invalidate virtually all abortion limits approved by state legislatures in all 50 states. But the bill could have the affect of closing down Catholic hospitals that refuse to do abortions. Here's how: As Cardinal Justin Rigali of the Archdiocese of Philadelphia warned in September, the FOCA bill "forbids government at all levels to 'discriminate' against the exercise of this [abortion] right 'in the regulation or provision of benefits, facilities, services, or information.'" Michael Moses, a top attorney for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, adds that the language of FOCA is so far-reaching that it will remove any conscience clause measures from state laws that protect doctors, hospitals and medical professionals who don't want to be involved in abortions. Moses' reading of the proposed legislation is that if abortion is a fundamental right that can't ever be infringed, then every hospital and medical center must do abortions -- including Catholic and other religious or private hospitals that object to do them. The net effect? Catholic hospitals would very likely shut their doors.

Awww, methinks the "lady" doth protest too much. I suspect if someone were to go back and revisit our past written interactions, they might quite easily divine that the conflict is all about the divergence in our political positions.

You're so kind. You must just win friends and influence people with your cheery disposition. I knew that. It was quite obvious -- to me, at least. Oh, no, you were very clear. You don't like me because I refuse to give in to your liberal blather, so instead you just attack me personally. I get it. It's very clear. It's a typical liberal response, as well, and I'm quite used to it. For the record, I'm not "posing as a person who has had wls or is interested in wls". I have had wls, thankyouverymuch. Still funny, though, that BJean thought you were accusing her of "really liking to engage in conflict and talk plenty of cyber buiishiggity" (whatever that is). She should have known: liberals never attack other liberals. It is also still funny that once she knew you weren't talking about her, she encouraged you to continue on. I see you took her at her word.

I agree with you both. I am not at all "better" than the mother facing an unplanned pregnancy. But if someone came to me and told me they were going to commit suicide or kill their neighbor, I would do every single thing in my power to stop them. There is no difference between those two examples and a pregnant mother considering abortion.

Back to the topic-at-hand, why are people voting for McCain, here's an expanded release of something I posted earlier (not sure if it was on this thread or not) -- are all of you OK with Obama's lowering the "rich" threshold to $50 - $70k? [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBIISfcqXO0]YouTube - Slippery Slope 3.0[/ame]