Cleo's Mom

I think you will find people who represent the whole spectrum on this issue, like most issues. I remember a poster who used to say you needed to count everything, including spices. Yes, she wanted you to count that shake of cinnamon. Others would be more lax in their approach - and they could be just as successful. I guess it is as much your personal approach and how well you are doing with it.

As for needing a lawyer. No, I don't think there is anything here that is medically negligent. However, I would not pay any bills for an extended stay when you were told you would be there just the one day and through no fault of your own you were kept an extra day. I would definitely appeal those charges. The hosptial might be big but they don't have enough staff to monitor all the beds so all the beds are not available. That was probably the case and housekeeping was slow to get you a room. Still, not your problem. Also, and this is very important - YOU need to get copies of all your test results. Including the operative report and initial liver biopsy as well as your hospital report/chart during your stay. That will show you were doing okay and could have gone home the same day. You should not be paying out of pocket for all these tests until you determine that they were necessary, done correctly and the results were correct. That's why you need to get copies and review them. Good luck.

Thank you so much for your kind words of support. :thumbup: We all need to be more like you. I have said all along that the ones who get the band to work as it should are very lucky. But the whole obesity problem is so complex that even the medical professionals don't totally understand it. They are learning all the time. There are genes, hormones, stomach signals to the brain, possibly viruses and a whole host of other things that compromise our metabolism, how we eat, when we eat, our hunger and our satiety. When I mentioned the hunger hormones, grehlin and leptin, to my former surgeon, he just rolled his eyes. So, is it any wonder we get that attitude by some on here? Even though I took off most of my weight (60 of the 75lbs) without the band, I don't think I would have lost the 60 without the mandated diets and the liquids only pre-and post- surgery. So for that reason, I am glad I made the journey but I am disappointed that the band has not worked for me like it was promoted. Good luck to you and thanks again.

Morethanthis: I am almost 60 years of age and I have dealt with many difficult family members, including my mother, but not about WLS - about other things. I came to the point where I realized I didn't want to spend anymore time or energy on toxic people. They weren't going to change. So, I decided that if people didn't have my best interest at heart and weren't going to treat me the way I deserved, why would I want them in my life. They say you can't pick your relatives. True. But you utimately can decide who is part of your life - related or not. So, tell your mother that you were not seeking her approval, you were just informing her. Tell her that she doesn't have to agree with your decision but she has to support it and you don't want to hear anymore negative or critical comments as it is important to be surrounded by supportive people on this journey. Tell her that if she wants to have any part in your life, she will either have to be supportive or silent about this. Otherwise, tell her you will block her emails or just send them to the trash, unread. I know it's hard to do, but I wish I had done what I did a lot sooner. My life is so much better now, but it took some guts and later getting cancer, to know what is really important in life - especially when you don't know how much time you have. Do you really want to waste it on these type of people or on those who love and support you. It's a tough choice but one that you need to make. Good luck.

Elcee, thanks for your input, insight and suggestions. Like I said, I have a lot to think about and decisions to make. Thanks, again.

Thanks for your reply, information and suggestions. I really apprecitate it. My new doctor sounds like yours. He says too many of his patients rely on being too tight to control their eating. I mean who wants to eat 1/2 cup of food for a meal? What would you even put in that 1/2 cup anyway? How could you get your daily protein, veggies and fruits that we are supposed to eat? I am going to make an appt. with my surgeon but my guess is he'll say I'm doing fine. Even though I've put on about 3lbs since all the fill was removed in December. When I recall the pain I was in with that stuck episode I break out in a cold sweat. I never imagined anything could be that painful that I couldn't even talk. So I am naturally very afraid of that EVER happening again. Much to talk to him about. I too eat more food than most bandsters on here. Have you read the thread about "what did you eat today?" Most eat very little (although I have to say some make very bad food choices). I eat much more but around 1300 calories. I do think in hindsight that for what my problem was - big appetite and needing a lot of food to feel satisfied the band was not the best choice of WLS for me. But I had never even heard of the sleeve then, plus at the time my insurance had just started paying for the band. But on the other hand, I have been reading more and more posts from people who say the band doesn't really take away their hunger for hours at a time (like it does for some lucky ones) but simply restricts the amount of food they can eat and they live with the hunger. That was never my goal in getting the band. So, anyway, lots to think about. Thanks again for your help. :thumbup:

Back in the 70's or early 80's when Jane Fonda's workouts were all the rage - I bought her book. Obviously she came from a family of wealth and fame. She tells the story of when she was growing up and hearing her (very thin) mother and her rich friends talking about weight and her mother saying that she would kill herself if she gained weight. Years later she did just that. So, you're right, these people have bigger issues and just use their insults to mask them.

Elfiepoo - I am sorry you too have had problems that sound like mine. I do now go to a center of Excellence that is rated #1 in my state. You sound like me in that it has always taken a lot of food to reach the point of satiety. Even when I was overfilled and could only eat small amounts at a time, I never achieved satiety. I, too, want the band to work for me. I've done my part, now it's time for this "tool" to work. Thanks for your help.

We need to see which foreign countries are giving money to the Chamber of Commerce (the most anti-american worker organization there is) to buy our elections because then we'll better be able to see where our jobs will be shipped in a quid pro quo.

Congratulations on your baby. My daughter and her husband just had a baby in May and my son and his wife just had a baby 3 weeks ago making me a grandmother for the first and second time. It's great. But I know the stresses they talk about all the time. It's tough. But breast feeding is great for getting the baby weight off. Plus all the running around taking care of baby. If you were getting stuck a lot before the baby and pbing - you might have been too tight. Your fill/unfill history seems like you were trying to get to that sweet spot. It's elusive for many. Your priorities have shifted now and they should. Your baby is number one. You can concentrate on the weight when the time is right. In the meantime, congratulations on that baby and good luck.

Thanks, Jachut, for your insight and thoughts. I have a lot to discuss with my surgeon the next time we meet. So, it sounds like the inability to eat more (due to the band and pouch) didn't stop you from being hungry or wanting more food, it just made it difficult for you to eat more. And with your reduced eating, better food choices and exercise, you were successful. That sounds like me but I don't like living with the hunger. That's where I am at this point. I do feel "restriction" of some sort from time to time - with the strangest things, too. Like if I drink cold iced tea (decaf and sugar free, of course) too fast it feel like it is just sitting there waiting to go down. Then in a bit I feel it going down. Thanks, again. And good luck with your cancer treatment. I've been there too (with breast cancer) and when you get that diagnosis it's like a kick in the gut. I think you will do fine.

2 Things You Can Do Today To Fight the Chamber Attack Ads Sat Oct 16, 2010 at 01:46:16 PM PDT This week, reporters found that the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, an opponent of union rights, workplace safety, project labor agreements and Davis-Bacon, is now using foreign money from overseas outsourcers to fund political attack ads targeting members of Congress who voted to keep jobs in the United States. While it tells the American public it cares about American jobs, the the U.S. Chamber of Commerce actually works to send jobs overseas on behalf of its corporate members, which include some of Asia’s top offshoring companies. As previously noted, the Chamber has repeatedly sent out issue alerts attacking efforts to encourage businesses to hire American workers rather than outsource to overseas destinations to India and China. At a time when millions of Americans are without jobs, the Chamber of Commerce cannot be allowed to get away with this slap in the face to every single American who has lost a job due to outsourcing, is threatened by it, or has seen family members suffer because of it. Stand up to the Chamber by doing two simple things: Write a letter to your local newspaper using a simple Letter to the Editor tool which takes less than a minute to use and; Tell your elected representatives in Washington to support an investigation into these shady attack ads. The stakes are too hight to sit back and do nothing. If the Chamber is allowed to buy its own hand-picked Congress, any effort to create jobs here at home will be completely crushed and the outsourcing of our American jobs to the countries and companies funding these attacks will continue at an even faster pace. find out who's sending jobs overseas from your community. dailykos

Sounds like you did a good job of being assertive to me! And "biggins" sounds like a hick term for fat or large or something. We all need to speak out when people are being insulted - whether it is in a store, at work or on these boards. I haven't seen a post by you for awhile. I still laugh when I think of the Linda Blair exorcist picture you posted after your raw carrot episode. I know the episode wasn't funny but the picture sure was.

Oh, I didn't take anything you said as condescending. I appreciate the time those who have replied took to give me some ideas and suggestions. I belong to Angie's list. My only problem with reporting him on there is that my comments could only lead him to know it's me. And if I ever had to call 9-1-1 and be taken to the hospital for some type of emergency surgery - guess who it would most likely be? Yep, him. His partner left last year for another hospital. This hospital (the closest to me and where an ambulance would take me) has only a few general surgeons. So, I would rather not create that situation. At this point I am not interested in losing weight (if I do, that's fine but not my focus right now) - just controlling hunger/appetite. That's it. Whatever exists in this world that can do that - I will do the rest. I make good food choices and I exercise every day and try to keep myself healthy otherwise. As a breast cancer patient I need to do that. I do cardio (treadmill and aerobic exercise videos) as well as weight training (to ward off osteoporosis - I have osteopenia now). I have tried to mix it up. I gave a list of all the foods I eat to the nutritionist at my new surgeon's and she said it was all fine. I told her what I eat and she seemed to think my diet was okay. I did find out that I was using too much "I can't believe it's not butter" and when I found out it had 860 calories a bottle I stopped that. So, I do try to tweak my diet to improve it and am always looking for ways to help with the hunger (more food without more calories). Thanks again for your replies, suggestions and help. I really appreciate it.

Could there be something else going on to cause the nausea that isn't band related? Maybe some type of virus in the stomach or the h. pylori bacteria or an ulcer or something going on the the lower part of your stomach? Just a thought. Maybe ask for something for nausea from your doctor and take it before you eat and see if that helps. But that isn't solving the problem, just the symptom. You need to find out what is causing the problem. Has your gallbladder been checked? Have you had an endoscopy and if so, what did it show? I always ask for copies of all test results. And pictures, if they provide them (my gastro doctor does for endoscopy). I'm just throwing out some ideas. I hope you have success finding out what's wrong.

Oh, I know what you meant about my former surgeon. I didn't take it as criticism at all. I have posted about him before and everyone says the same thing - that he was inexperienced - especially in follow up care and I was smart to get a new doctor. All of your suggestions make sense. I was too loose and too tight and never found the right medium. I will talk to my surgeon about that - he said finding the right spot with a 4cc band is more difficult with fills but doable. Also, he said too many of his band patients just want tighter and tighter and depend on that too much to lose weight and from many of the posts I read on here that is true of a lot of bandsters. If you read veteran Jachut's posts you would see that she doesn't believe in being so tight that you have to drink your Breakfast or limit yourself to 1/2 cup of food at a meal. And that you should be able to eat most healthy foods, including carbs, which she, like me, believes helps with hunger. She has been enormously successful. I really want this band to work. I only got it for one reason - to curb my hunger and reduce my huge appetite - the biggest problems for me. I was not a junk or fast food eater. I don't care if I ever eat a big mac again. I am a quantity eater. I need to have that satiety. Everyone comes to WLS with a different history of how and why they got where they did. Mine was that I had a huge appetite and needed large quantities of food to feel satisfied. I was just as happy with Cereal or eggs and toast as long as I could eat as much as I wanted. I didn't need pizza, wings, fast food, snack food or any other typical "bad stuff". Just quantity. So far the band has not done that at all for me. When I was too tight I got pressure and pain but I could still feel the empty stomach below wanting food. I did not achieve satiety. Having food in the pouch never translated to a feeling of satiety. The restriction just made it impossible to eat more food. Does that make sense? That the inability to eat more did not cause satiety - that for me it seemed like two different things? I appreciate that you have taken the time to offer some very good suggestions and I will discuss this with my surgeon. It's time, I think, to have a very serious discussion with him about all of this. Thanks again.

I made a poor choice with my first surgeon. I chose him because he was close (a community hospital) and since I live alone I felt that I needed nearby care. Big mistake. My new surgeon has looked at the CD's of previous upper GI's as well as conducting his own. He always says that the band looks okay. When I first went to him (after the disastrous overfill by the former surgeon) he did say I had a slight slip. When I had the overfill I also got an endoscopy and the gastro doctor said he thought the band was placed too high. He said he had thought it slipped upward, but he said he didn't have a lot of experience with banded patients. I did some research on my band. I got the product number on it and found out that it had an expiration date of June 2009 (that means guaranteed sterility). My band was placed in Sept. 2008. This is what I think: My former surgeon (who continues a general surgeon practice) wanted to jump on the $$$ bandwagon for WLS. A doctor who perfomed them was retiring and my surgeon and his partner took over the practice. They were going to use up old inventory before buying new and the retiring surgeon had these older 4cc bands around that needed to be used before the expiration date. My new surgeon doesn't use lapband - he uses the realize band. He said the 4cc band is okay but makes fills more difficult because of the very small amounts that can make a big difference. My former surgeon just slammed me with 2cc's then 1cc. That was too much each time. I will have to discuss all this with my surgeon. I don't think he would think I need anything at this time. But I will ask. I have mentioned the sleeve to him and he does them but again didn't think I needed that. Thanks for your help.

If you've been reading my posts and replies to those who slam and criticize what they call "negative" posters, you know that I agree with you 100%. You said it much better than I did and you said it well. But I wish you wouldn't leave. We need more people like you on here. There are more of us than you know and we can't let the critics get us down or cause us to leave. And you should report anyone who sends you an insulting or offensive PM to one of the moderators.

Do you know what the website it? Is it ratemydoctors.com?

I saw this post on the sleeve forum and thought - YES, YES, THAT'S THE EXPERIENCE I WANT. THAT IS ME (HER BAND EXPERIENCE) I personally think the band and the sleeve are two completely different. So far the sleeve for me has been everything I was looking for in the band, which I never got. No Hunger No Fills/Unfills!!! No food dragging in my esophagus No night coughs No cheating (like with the band you could just wash it down to your biggie stomach) I feel real fulness.. Not just pressure in my throat I really only can eat a few Oz at a time. I NEVER had this with my band, unless I was so tight I choked up everything I ate. This surgery IMO is FAR SUPERIOR to the band. Good luck!!! I am going to have to discuss all this with my new surgeon and insurance company. They wouldn't consider what I have now a complication (no slip, erosion, etc..) Thanks for your information.

Thanks, Dave, for your suggestions.

I posted this in the post-surgery forum but this is a more appropriate site. Did anyone else have this problem and if so, how did you solve it? So, here is my situation. I was thin all my life growing up and had an enormous appetite. It always took a lot of food for me to feel satisfied. I ate when I was hungry, stopped when "full", didn't gain weight and didn't think about food. That all ended in my late 20's when the genes of my obese family kicked in. The weight started coming on, especially after 2 pregnancies. I did all the diets. They all left me hungry. So fast forward 30 years and now I'm obese. I get the LAP-BAND® in Sept. 2008. In January 2006 I started my own diet, plus the 6 month pre-op diet and 2 week liquid diet before and after the LAP-BAND® had me losing 60 lbs. My surgeon wanted me to lose another 10-15 lbs in the 3 weeks after surgery with no fill. That should have been red flag #1. That is an unrealistic expectation for anyone, plus I didn't have a lot more to lose at that point. Red flag #2 was when I found out he lied about the size band he put in me. He said it was 10cc but I found out it was 4cc. His first fill was 2cc's and his second fill was 1cc. This one caused me many problems - pain, reflux, heartburn, pressure. He blamed me. It was a case of well, if you drink that and it does that then don't drink. After he did an upper GI and saw what a mess I was and how I was too tight he called me in immediately for a slight unfill. At this point I had lost about 75lbs. He was never satisfied with this and gave me the come to Jesus talk when I hadn't lost from one appt. to another. That should have been red flag #3. So, I got a second opinion and that is when I found out about the lies, etc.. And then I switched to this new surgeon. He was very complimentary about my weight loss and had a supportive attitude. He told me I was too hard on myself (something my late husband used to always say to me) I want to make this very clear: At no point in my LAP-BAND® journey from no fill to 3cc's did the band ever, ever for one second take away my hunger or provide me with satiety. Did it make it difficult to eat a lot at one sitting? Yes, but that is different. I was still very much unsatisfied. The inability to eat more and the feeling of satiety are two different things for me. In hindsight, I think the sleeve would have been a better choice for me - it takes away the stomach and reduces those hunger hormones which I think are my two biggest problems. But, I digress. So last December I got stuck so bad that I had to go to the ER and spend the night in the hospital. I have been through a lot of painful things but nothing like this. I couldn't even talk I was in so much pain. Dilaudid (sp?) didn't even help. All the fill was taken out of my band and that is where it is now. So, what am I supposed to do? Getting a fill will not help with the hunger and just make it more likely to cause a stuck episode and when I tell you the fear I have of this - it is overwhelming. I cannot even begin to tell you how painful that episode was. I am sure getting shot couldn't have been more painful. So, what do I do? I exercise every day. I count calories and keep a food log and I have the same hunger as I have always had - before the band. So, what do I do? I am 59, my insurance won't pay for the sleeve. But I did all this and now fear gaining weight back. So far I haven't but it is a struggle every day. Every day. So, you can see that the band doesn't work as it should for everyone. And I followed all the rules. Still do. So, what should I do?

Yes, I know the difference between hunger and lack of satiety. I can eat so that I reach a point of satiety, but it takes more food than it would with most successful bandsters. And it doesn't last long - certainly not hours. Secondly, when I had 2cc's and then 3cc's - it didn't change anything for me. With 2cc's I ate a certain amount of food because that was what I was told to eat. But I was hungry soon again. And it was just a disaster with the 3cc's. I couldn't figure out why 3cc's in a 10cc band would cause so many problems until I found out I had a 4cc band. I have to take my synthroid at least an hour before eating so I would take it around 6 AM with a sip of Water. When I had 3ccs that water would come back up when I laid down. All my doctor did was try to change how and when I took the pills rather than deal with the fact that at 6AM I should be able to take a sip of water. I stay at around 1300 calories. I have Protein at each meal but I don't calculate or do a breakdown. Early in the post-surgery days I was drinking protein until I was told I didn't need to do that anymore. I have tried the more protein thing. Proteins do not keep me satisfied longer. Complex carbs do. If you've read any of Jachut's posts (and she is a very successful bandster) she agrees that you need carbs to reach satiety and that protein doesn't always do it. I concur, for me. But others might have a different experience. I do have a new surgeon. I switched 7 months after my surgery. It didn't take me long to see that my original surgeon (who had only done 23 bands before me) had very poor follow up knowledge/care. He is a general surgeon who continues his general surgery practice. I also think that since he does RNY - he was used to seeing bigger weight losses each week and thought my plateau was a reflection on him. As far as reporting him - I know that the bar is very high for trying to show some kind of incompetence/negligence for a doctor. An attorney/ state board, etc.. would say that I had successful surgery, no complications and the doctor ordered all the appropriate tests and when it showed I was too tight he promptly took out some of the fill. They would just say that we weren't compatible as doctor/patient. He is still advertising for patients in the paper. I think he wants to get his hospital and center of excellence. But back to my band. I don't see what a fill would do for me. I would increase my chances for being stuck but still having that hunger. I know I am not alone with this situation with the band. The way it was promoted to me was - when you eat you feel full when the food reaches the top of the stomach. With the band the food stays at the top, thus giving you that sensation. Well, not so fast. With me it still seems like that empty bottom stomach is saying "I'm empty, feed me". The walls of the stomach stretch when we eat and send signals to the brain. When that bottom part is empty, there are no signals to the brain. Plus when I mentioned grehlin and leptin to my former doctor, he just rolled his eyes. The process of hunger, eating, satiety is SOOO complicated. I don't think they know how it competely works. I just know that the band has never worked like I read on here for some people and I am very envious of their success. Thanks for your help.

So, here is my situation. I was thin all my life growing up and had an enormous appetite. It always took a lot of food for me to feel satisfied. I ate when I was hungry, stopped when "full", didn't gain weight and didn't think about food. That all ended in my late 20's when the genes of my obese family kicked in. The weight started coming on, especially after 2 pregnancies. I did all the diets. They all left me hungry. So fast forward 30 years and now I'm obese. I get the lapband in Sept. 2008. In January 2006 I started my own diet, plus the 6 month pre-op diet and 2 week liquid diet before and after the lap band had me losing 60 lbs. My surgeon wanted me to lose another 10-15 lbs in the 3 weeks after surgery with no fill. That should have been red flag #1. That is an unrealistic expectation for anyone, plus I didn't have a lot more to lose at that point. Red flag #2 was when I found out he lied about the size band he put in me. He said it was 10cc but I found out it was 4cc. His first fill was 2cc's and his second fill was 1cc. This one caused me many problems - pain, reflux, heartburn, pressure. He blamed me. It was a case of well, if you drink that and it does that then don't drink. After he did an upper GI and saw what a mess I was and how I was too tight he called me in immediately for a slight unfill. At this point I had lost about 75lbs. He was never satisfied with this and gave me the come to Jesus talk when I hadn't lost from one appt. to another. That should have been red flag #3. So, I got a second opinion and that is when I found out about the lies, etc.. And then I switched to this new surgeon. He was very complimentary about my weight loss and had a supportive attitude. He told me I was too hard on myself (something my late husband used to always say to me) I want to make this very clear: At no point in my lapband journey from no fill to 3cc's did the band ever, ever for one second take away my hunger or provide me with satiety. Did it make it difficult to eat a lot at one sitting? Yes, but that is different. I was still very much unsatisfied. The inability to eat more and the feeling of satiety are two different things for me. In hindsight, I think the sleeve would have been a better choice for me - it takes away the stomach and reduces those hunger hormones which I think are my two biggest problems. But, I digress. So last December I got stuck so bad that I had to go to the ER and spend the night in the hospital. I have been through a lot of painful things but nothing like this. I couldn't even talk I was in so much pain. Dilaudid (sp?) didn't even help. All the fill was taken out of my band and that is where it is now. So, what am I supposed to do? Getting a fill will not help with the hunger and just make it more likely to cause a stuck episode and when I tell you the fear I have of this - it is overwhelming. I cannot even begin to tell you how painful that episode was. I am sure getting shot couldn't have been more painful. So, what do I do? I exercise every day. I count calories and keep a food log and I have the same hunger as I have always had - before the band. So, what do I do? I am 59, my insurance won't pay for the sleeve. But I did all this and now fear gaining weight back. So far I haven't but it is a struggle every day. Every day. So, you can see that the band doesn't work as it should for everyone. And I followed all the rules. Still do. So, what should I do?

Has anyone with a band had any experience with a plastic surgeon in the Pittsburgh area for liposuction? Better yet if they are east of Pgh.