Cleo's Mom

Well said. That's what it's all about.

Thank you, Wren Bird. I actually am a sweet person but I will not be intimidated. And I suspect the OP didn't so much have a problem with Rants & Raves being off topic and not about weight loss and the band but that the Election Issues thread postings didn't mesh with her political views.

Since the OP is on my ignore list now, I will tell you that she went on Election Issues (not any of the other threads) on Rants & Raves and questioned that this was supposed to be about weight loss and the band not election issues. BTW, I started the Election Issues thread. Both another poster and I told her it clearly states that this forum is OFF topic - and what doesn't she understand about that and that if she doesn't want to get involved in off topic debates to stay out and stick to the MANY threads that deal with the band and weight loss. That is when she sent me and the other poster a private message using stronger, insulting language and that is when things heated up and the moderator told everyone to get back on topic. She is welcome to come into rants & raves and post opinions that relate to the topic but if she is opposed to the very idea of a rants & raves forum then just stay out. Pretty simple to me.

Just put her on your ignore list and that way she'll know that we won't see her posts. I just think about all the mega-rich laughing at all the duped people (who probably don't make more than $50,000-$60,000 a year) protesting wall street financial reform, estate taxes, capital gains taxes, etc.. while remaining silent about wall street bonuses, foreclosures, unemployment (except to say the unemployed don't want to work), etc.. These duped are doing all the work for them while they laugh all the way to the bank.

Eight False Things The Public “Knows” Prior To Election Day By Dave Johnson Created 10/22/2010 - 1:07pm There are a number things the public "knows [1]" as we head into the election that are just false. If people elect leaders based on false information, the things those leaders do in office will not be what the public expects or needs. Here are eight of the biggest myths that are out there: 1) President Obama tripled the deficit. Reality: Bush's last budget [2] had a $1.416 trillion deficit. Obama's first reduced that to $1.29 trillion [3]. 2) President Obama raised taxes, which hurt the economy. Reality: Obama cut taxes [4]. 40% of the "stimulus" was wasted on tax cuts which only create debt [5], which is why it was so much less effective than it could have been. 3) President Obama bailed out the banks. Reality: While many people conflate the "stimulus" with the bank bailouts, the bank bailouts were requested by President Bush [6] and his Treasury Secretary, former Goldman Sachs CEO Henry Paulson. (Paulson also wanted the bailouts [7] to be "non-reviewable by any court or any agency.") The bailouts passed and began before the 2008 election of President Obama. 4) The stimulus didn't work. Reality: The stimulus worked, but was not enough [8]. In fact, according to the Congressional Budget Office [9], the stimulus raised employment by between 1.4 million and 3.3 million jobs. 5) Businesses will hire if they get tax cuts. Reality: A business hires the right number of employees to meet demand [10]. Having extra cash does not cause a business to hire, but a business that has a demand for what it does will find the money to hire. Businesses want customers, not tax cuts [11]. 6) Health care reform costs $1 trillion. Reality: The health care reform reduces government deficits by $138 billion [12].. 7) Social Security is a Ponzi scheme [13], is "going broke," people live longer, fewer workers per retiree, etc. Reality: Social Security has run a surplus since it began, has a trust fund in the trillions, is completely sound for at least 25 more years and cannot legally borrow so cannot contribute to the deficit (compare that to the military budget!) Life expectancy is only longer because fewer babies die; people who reach 65 live about the same number of years as they used to. 8) Government spending takes money out of the economy. Reality: Government is We, the People and the money it spends is on We, the People. Many people do not know that it is government that builds the roads, airports, ports, courts, schools and other things that are the soil in which business thrives. Many people think that all government spending is on "welfare" and "foreign aid" when that is only a small part of the government's budget. This stuff really matters. If the public votes in a new Congress because a majority of voters think this one tripled the deficit, and as a result the new people follow the policies that actually tripled the deficit, the country could go broke. If the public votes in a new Congress that rejects the idea of helping to create demand in the economy because they think it didn't work, then the new Congress could do things that cause a depression. If the public votes in a new Congress because they think the health care reform will increase the deficit when it is actually projected to reduce the deficit, then the new Congress could repeal health care reform and thereby make the deficit worse. And on it goes. Back on topic!

No, you said it in a private message to me since you didn't have the guts to come on here and say it. You have been put on my ignore list as you should be. :blushing:

Don't worry, I will. Anyone who comes on here knows I won't be intimidated. She didn't have the guts to reply here so she sent me a PM. She does the complaining and then complains about you and me. :blushing: Notice she didn't complain on the other non-weight loss threads that weren't political in nature - like "should we pay drug abusers to be sterilized" or "polygamy". She's just someone of a different political opinion trying to mask it as being upset that there is an off topic thread, much like the teabaggers try to mask their hatred of Obama behind the deficit and spending. Yeah, right!

I don't understand why you would enter a Rant & Rave Off Topic Forum to begin with. Off topic meaning off the topic of weight loss and band, etc.. It is right there on the LBT main page - Rants & Raves - "OFF topic". That means it won't necessarily be about lapband and weight loss. As BJean said, if you don't want to enter into off topic discussions and prefer to stick to lapband/weight issues, then why come here? There are plenty of forums and threads on LBT to satisfy anyone's need to discuss weight loss and the band. I can post here and on other websites, if I choose, and again, if you don't like off topic threads then don't come on here. The LBT administrators set it up to be off topic and it is a legitimate forum. Stay off it if you don't like the topics or opinions expressed. I have no plans to stay away because I didn't complain about this forum to begin with. :smile2:

LBT Rants and Raves *** Off-Topic DEBATE AREA *** Want debate? Get it here. Gripe, complain, moan, fight, rant and rave. Enter at your own risk! What part of "Off Topic", debate, etc... don't you understand? Stay out of here if you don't want to read/debate off topic threads. There are plenty of forums and threads about weight loss, so why come here at all?

I was on a liquid only diet for 2 weeks post surgery and I told them if they aren't going to feed me, I'm not going to exercise. :blushing: I started exercising after that - when I went on the mushies.

I meet with my doctor next month. Andy and Opie Taylor from Mayberry, NC always said pop. Soda is something with ice cream as in ice cream soda. I was told the food stays in the pouch for a long time providing a sense of fullness and also why you shouldn't drink so as to wash it all out. But like I've said - the doctors are all over the place. I believe there should be a set standard of care and a research-based explanation for everything we're told from why we have to go on liquids for 2 weeks before surgery to how the band works with restriction, etc.. and everything in between.

If I were you I would get copies of all test results, including operative reports from both surgeries, all upper GI's, etc..and then take all of this to another surgeon for a second opinion. Whatever you do -DO NOT GO BACK TO THIS SURGEON - anyone who says don't call his office if you get stuck is irresponsible not to mention unethical. It is his job to help you when you have problems. You've already had several problems while under his care. You are asking for more trouble if you continue any relationship with him. Don't even call his office except to ask for all the test results. If there are any CD's of the upper GI's available (from hospital records) get them. When you call and ask for this they will know you have a reason. Don't tell them why. It is your right to have access to them. Good luck.

I agree with much of what you have to say, but most of all I want to say thanks - it's pop - not soda. Thanks for being a fellow pop person. Although I don't drink pop I am glad you are using the correct term. :thumbup: (This ought to open up a whole pop vs soda debate) :w00t:

I think it's fine that you posted the article. I think it validates what I've been saying about WLS doctors - that they are all over the place in their approach to the band, their pre-op and post-op recommendations, their knowledge (or lack thereof) of how the band works, their expectations (often unrealistic) and their general follow up care. Too little of what we're told is backed up by research. I mean why can some eat full meals right up to the day before surgery and others (like me) be put on a liquid only diet for 2 weeks before? Where is the research to back up either approach? I think many of the doctors jumped on the WLS bandwagon for the money without a full understanding of the follow up care which is the most important part with the band. When I read articles like this, they just don't make sense. -Eat 1/2 cup of food, which will pass through the pouch and band within minutes, but will somehow trick your brain that you have eaten enough and are full. -Eat 1/2 cup and stop even though you can eat more and you will lose weight. Well, duh! Of course you'll lose weight if you only eat 1/2 cup of food - it is that feeling full part despite the ability to eat more food that is a little fuzzy. I think most on here know better, or should, not to shoot the messenger. So don't worry about coming on here and getting bashed. If you do, you will have your defenders. Like me.

That's possible because my idiot former surgeon filled me wrong for a 4cc band (he told me I had a 10cc band - I don't) - he did 2cc's and then 1cc (too tight) and then 1cc unfill. With a 4cc band the fills are much smaller and refined. But keep in mind that I am not looking for weight loss at this point. Just a feeling of satiety/fullness/lack of hunger. I am not interested in the terminology. If I get that, I will take care of the rest because I eat healthy food and exercise every day. Something else to discuss at my doctor appt.

The band was promoted as helping to reduce appetite/hunger. Period. It has never done that for me and from the many posts I've been reading, it hasn't worked that way for a lot of others. Sure you can be so tight that you are unable to eat much but if that doesn't translate into reducing your appetite and take away your hunger, what is the point? All of us could eat less and be hungry before the band on every diet we were on.

You are definitely not alone. I have never had a feeling of satiety, fullness or lack of hunger or whatever term people want to use. When I was too tight, I would get pain and pressure with small amounts of well-chewed food. And I would stop eating. But still I felt hungry. When some fill was removed, I didn't get the pain but I never felt satisfied, full or not hungry. The hunger can vary - sometimes it's not as bad, other times it is. I am totally unfilled now and I still have some restriction - especially with cold items (like decaf sugar free iced tea) - I will feel them sitting there until they go down when the steak went down just fine. Go figure. Anyway, I think it is different for every person. Some would call that pressure feeling being full. It never translated to that for me, or you, obviously. My empty stomach below seemed to want food in it - it felt empty. Just like before the band when I would diet and eat small quantities. I have a doctor appt. and will discuss all this with him. I am not about losing more weight at this point but about addressing these other issues.

You're just another example of the band not working as it should for many of us. I am glad you are addressing this issue and getting it taken care of. Too many suffer with all kinds of problems thinking that is what they have to do to lose weight. Or that they have failed the band. Not true. Good luck with your revision and come back and let us know how everything goes.

I still want a scientific or medical reason why food staying in the pouch for only a few minutes provides a lasting sense of fullness. I need to know the biology behind this statement. Also, why the "no liquids before or after eating" then? This is from Bariatric.US Laparoscopic adjustable gastric banding (LAGB), also known as gastric banding or lapband surgery, is a type of bariatric surgery that promotes weight loss by restricting the amount of food that can enter the stomach at any one time. By slowing digestion, it also helps to control feelings of hunger and increase the feeling of fullness after eating a meal. Gastric banding offers obese individuals a bariatric treatment that is less invasive and safer than gastric bypass surgery.

If you read the article in the thread "Worth the Read" on here and believe what it says, then the not drinking before and after meals doesn't really make sense.

It is my opinion that bariatric doctors are all over the place in their guidelines for pre-op and post-op diets, testing and follow up care. You see that from the many different posts on here. Some can eat full meals up to the day before their surgery and start mushies soon after surgery - I was put on a liquid-only diet for 2 weeks prior to and after surgery. Some doctors require the 1/2 cup only of food at each meal, others are more lax. All that being said, if the pouch loses the food in a few minutes I don't understand where the feeling of fullness comes from. Just because it was in the pouch for a few minutes the brain thinks you're full - even though the pouch empties into the larger stomach? I would like to see the scientific evidence to back this up. I was told the purpose of the pouch was to keep the food there and empty SLOWLY to keep you feeling full for several hours. Also, if that is true, then why the "no liquids before or after eating" for 30 minutes? Another area the WLS doctors are all over the place about. If your food empties out of the pouch in a few minutes, then why no liquids for an hour afterward like my former doctor required? There is much about this article that just doesn't ring true for me and I suspect many other banded patients and it's also clear that many on here rely very much on more fills to restrict what they can eat and live with the consequences of heartburn, reflux, etc..as the price they think they have to pay for weight loss.

So, let me see if I got this right 1) The band is not about restriction 2) The band is supposed to suppress your appetite 3) The food in the pouch above the band passes into your stomach within a few minutes and is not made to stay in the pouch 4) And somehow this is supposed to trick your brain that you are not hungry and your appetite is suppressed. Huh? The way the band was explained to me is that without the band you feel full when the food reaches the top of the stomach. With the band pouch the food is already up there - thus the sense of fullness. If it only stays there for minutes I don't know how it creates that sense of fullness. But anyway, the band has never reduced my appetite, provided me a sense of fullness or worked like it is supposed to. So all that is a moot point. I would imagine that whole "not relying on tighter restriction" will surprise all those on here who do just that. Those are the one who ask "how many times a week do you vomit?" or who can only drink their Breakfast, etc...

I am someone who changed doctors seven months after my surgery because my first one was inexperienced and had very poor follow up care and knowledge about the band and how it works. I think some WLS surgeons prefer the gastric bypass because patients do lose more weight faster and they take that as a reflection on them. You doctor also said he prefered bypass to the lapband because of less follow up. That is doctor speak for: I am not very good at the whole fill/unfill, getting the band to work thing. You have been well advised to move on to another doctor because, while the surgical part of the band is important, the follow up care is even more important to get the band to work as it should. Good luck.