The people he hangs with and has hung with are not a right-wing conspiracy, those are facts. Put aside the connections some call more tenuous:

Franklin Raines: Former Chairman and CEO of Fannie Mae, Franklin Raines was an adviser to Obama on mortgage and housing policy.

Antonin Tony Rezko: Real-estate developer and broker Rezko has been convicted of wire and mail fraud, money laundering and bribery. Obama is a longtime associate of Rezko, and bought some property from him in 2006.

Bill Ayers: Ayers was a member of the radical Weathermen organization in the 1960s and '70s. He and Obama have met on several occasions and were both on the board of directors of the Woods Fund of Chicago.

What we DO know for sure was that he was a member of a church for 20 years led by a racist, America-hating, vile-spewing "pastor" who Obama said he could no sooner toss him aside than he could a member of his own family. Until it started affecting his run for office that is (if he really DID toss him aside). I don't know about y'all, but I have never EVER heard of a family being a member of a church for 20 years that did not espouse their own beliefs and views. That just doesn't happen.

Then we have him with his "spread the wealth" comment. On tape he is caught stating that we need to become a more socialist nation than we already are. And when confronted about it, he defends this stance!! Why would anybody willingly and gladly go to the polls and vote for an America-hating socialist who acts as if this is a good thing?

And if you are a white Obama voter, what will he do TO you? See here:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7fi8STNlxM]YouTube - 1995 Obama Bizarre, Race Baiting Interview Found! HE MUST SAVE BLACKS SO HE CAN BE SAVED.[/ame]

It's all out there in black and white, even barring the stuff some of y'all consider questionable and straw-grasping by the right. :thumbup:

You make a good point, Beth.

I've never understood why some people think that associations don't matter. I mean, if you have kids, who would you rather they hang out with---the druggies and gangsters, or the "good kids" who did their homework and didn't get in trouble? Isn't the reason because we know that people in a group seem to mimic the same behavior? And when did you ever see one "good kid" convert an entire group of "bad kids"? Isn't it usually the other way around?

I saw elsewhere where an Obama supporter asked why the Ayers thing mattered. We all know damn well if the shoe was on the other foot, it would matter.:thumbup:

The last thing conservatives need to do right now is bring up "associations".

In fact, I would want to stay as far away from that word as humanly possible.

Or why Cindy McCain's addiction to prescription drugs 20 years ago matters....but Obama's cocaine use in his college years doesn't. Or why the NT Times feels fine about trying to dig up dirt on the McCains from the McCains' young daughter, and her friends and her MySpace page ... but considers any mention of anything Michelle Obama or her family says as off-limits. grrrrrrrrr....

I don't mind hearing the truth about my candidate, as long as "truth" is also dished out equally on the other side. This bias for Obama is so bad that even the Clintons have complained! Do you remember Hillary and her main spokesman Terry McCauliffe saying that Fox News was the most fair to them during their campaign (and have you noticed how many of her former campaign workers have joined Fox as "paid commentator/news contributors"?) Amazing how things turn, eh?

Hmmm, Phil Gramm ring a bell? He was the one who slipped a bill through in 2000 (house and senate were majority ruled by the Rep.) deregulating the financial markets.....and he is one of McCain's advisors ....though he did resign after his stupid remark about American's being whiners and that we are in a "mental recession" not a real recession. But, Sen. McCain still calls on him for advice. So, associations do matter, but only if it's the shoe on the other foot? Because if there is "guilt by association" then Sen. McCain has a lot of explaining to do.

Bet you didn't know that McCain hired the very people that trashed him and his family during the 2000 election. So much for having an ounce of moral Fiber. Sorry, but if you're willing to hire the very people that caused your family so much pain, I wonder what you'd do to a perfect stranger!

And don't get me started on Caribou Barbie! She will be the reason that McCain loses on Tuesday.

I used to respect Sen. McCain.

The people he hangs with and has hung with are not a right-wing conspiracy, those are facts. Put aside the connections some call more tenuous:

Franklin Raines: Former Chairman and CEO of Fannie Mae, Franklin Raines was an adviser to Obama on mortgage and housing policy.

Antonin Tony Rezko: Real-estate developer and broker Rezko has been convicted of wire and mail fraud, money laundering and bribery. Obama is a longtime associate of Rezko, and bought some property from him in 2006.

Bill Ayers: Ayers was a member of the radical Weathermen organization in the 1960s and '70s. He and Obama have met on several occasions and were both on the board of directors of the Woods Fund of Chicago.

What we DO know for sure was that he was a member of a church for 20 years led by a racist, America-hating, vile-spewing "pastor" who Obama said he could no sooner toss him aside than he could a member of his own family. Until it started affecting his run for office that is (if he really DID toss him aside). I don't know about y'all, but I have never EVER heard of a family being a member of a church for 20 years that did not espouse their own beliefs and views. That just doesn't happen.

Then we have him with his "spread the wealth" comment. On tape he is caught stating that we need to become a more socialist nation than we already are. And when confronted about it, he defends this stance!! Why would anybody willingly and gladly go to the polls and vote for an America-hating socialist who acts as if this is a good thing?

And if you are a white Obama voter, what will he do TO you? See here:

YouTube - 1995 Obama Bizarre, Race Baiting Interview Found! HE MUST SAVE BLACKS SO HE CAN BE SAVED.

It's all out there in black and white, even barring the stuff some of y'all consider questionable and straw-grasping by the right.

You have an interesting, yet manipulative way of wording things.

Religion is one of those issues that is not as cut and dry as you like to pretend. People are leaving their Christian (for example) churches and completely swapping views at the rate of about 1% a year and they have been for the last 15 years.

All these threads you are starting with scare tactics, manipulation, and untruths just make me glad so many are getting out there to vote for Obama. People don't want extreme McDummy in office and they are getting out there to vote already. Here in AZ just the other day they have already counted 100,000 early ballots. People don't want the same old tired crap that McCain is dragging behind him. That's why he isn't doing well in the polls.

We hear you, we just don't agree with your take on issues. McCain scares the bejezus out of me. He's been our senator for a long time and the man needs to get the hell out of politics and go away to some farm and live out whatever time he has left on this planet while taking his skanky wife and idiot VP wannabe with him.

You have an interesting, yet manipulative way of wording things.

I just realized I didn't put in my disclaimer: I didn't write it.

Religion is one of those issues that is not as cut and dry as you like to pretend. People are leaving their Christian (for example) churches and completely swapping views at the rate of about 1% a year and they have been for the last 15 years.

I can only speak for myself, but for me, it may be similar to how I feel the conservatives have abandoned my party. So too have the churches abandoned many Christians. Apathy and apostasy is rampant in the church, and people like myself see it. We are disillusioned with MAN and how he has bastardized Christianity.

People don't want extreme McDummy in office and they are getting out there to vote already.

Yes, I've noticed. Instead, they want an even more extreme socialist to run the show. I consider many who are so gung ho for him as being the type with their hands out hoping that the messiah will bless them with some of my money. I have heard the left call those of us who want to pay less taxes as being selfish. Instead, what I see are the voters who are voting for him with one hand while they hold the other hand out for their stipend as being the selfish ones. They would rather steal from the hard-working individuals than go out and do it themselves. That is the ultimate in selfishness.

We hear you, we just don't agree with your take on issues. McCain scares the bejezus out of me. He's been our senator for a long time and the man needs to get the hell out of politics and go away to some farm and live out whatever time he has left on this planet while taking his skanky wife and idiot VP wannabe with him.

I agree: I hear you, but I wholly disagree with your take on issues. Obama scares the bejezus out of me because he knows nothing, has done nothing, and his only answer to everything is to make us a socialist nation, taking away people's right to capitalism. And the name-calling you level at these people is VERY indicative of the left. Y'all can't just seem to disagree -- you have to attack. More from the oh-so-tolerant left, I see.

I just realized I didn't put in my disclaimer: I didn't write it.

I can only speak for myself, but for me, it may be similar to how I feel the conservatives have abandoned my party. So too have the churches abandoned many Christians. Apathy and apostasy is rampant in the church, and people like myself see it. We are disillusioned with MAN and how he has bastardized Christianity.

Yes, I've noticed. Instead, they want an even more extreme socialist to run the show. I consider many who are so gung ho for him as being the type with their hands out hoping that the messiah will bless them with some of my money. I have heard the left call those of us who want to pay less taxes as being selfish. Instead, what I see are the voters who are voting for him with one hand while they hold the other hand out for their stipend as being the selfish ones. They would rather steal from the hard-working individuals than go out and do it themselves. That is the ultimate in selfishness.

I agree: I hear you, but I wholly disagree with your take on issues. Obama scares the bejezus out of me because he knows nothing, has done nothing, and his only answer to everything is to make us a socialist nation, taking away people's right to capitalism. And the name-calling you level at these people is VERY indicative of the left. Y'all can't just seem to disagree -- you have to attack. More from the oh-so-tolerant left, I see.

It would serve you (and the rest of us) well if you would kindly get over yourself. I live in AZ and I've hated McDummy for a very long time.

You are not all that, you just aren't. You have a twisted and distorted view of anyone that doesn't fall all over you agreeing with you politically. You know nothing of my income, what I pay in taxes, my overall political views, or anything else. But since I think McCain is an idiot and have thought he was an idiot LONG before he decided to run for prez, you have me pegged with a term I don't believe you have a full understanding. All you can see is that someone disagrees with you so they must be a welfare dependent, tree hugging, mindless drone that does as we are told.

I don't vote by party affiliation, I think that is the extreme of stupidity and ignorance not to mention lazy thinking. I refuse to vote according to some silly ass church or mindless religion, I vote not according to what hard core right extremists tell me, I vote with a brain.

Seriously, you should try it. Vote according to the issue and the person, not according to party or church dogma.

You whine about my referring to McDummy as McDummy yet you use your subtle (or not so subtle) slams by assuming you have a freak'en clue about my political beliefs and opinions.

Again, do us all a favor and get over yourself. I'm tired of the insults you throw around and silly threads you start trying to show your superiority. I have news for you, it isn't working.

It would serve you (and the rest of us) well if you would kindly get over yourself. I live in AZ and I've hated McDummy for a very long time.

What's to get over?? I'm simply posting my viewpoint as you and others have. Why is it that the left always wants to silence the opposition? Y'all are lilke little commies running around, trying to bully those who disagree with you. Why is that?

You are not all that, you just aren't.

Who ever said I was? ROTFLMAO!

You have a twisted and distorted view of anyone that doesn't fall all over you agreeing with you politically.

Uh, Kettle? Yeah, Pot here. You're black. LOL

You know nothing of my income, what I pay in taxes, my overall political views, or anything else.

Couldn't care less.

But since I think McCain is an idiot and have thought he was an idiot LONG before he decided to run for prez, you have me pegged with a term I don't believe you have a full understanding. All you can see is that someone disagrees with you so they must be a welfare dependent, tree hugging, mindless drone that does as we are told.

No, what I see is anybody clinging onto that socialist like he's the second coming of Christ really has a screw loose. If the shoe fits, I'm sorry, but I didn't put you there. As for McCain, he's simply what the democrats were about 20 years ago. He's not my representative.

I don't vote by party affiliation, I think that is the extreme of stupidity and ignorance not to mention lazy thinking. I refuse to vote according to some silly ass church or mindless religion, I vote not according to what hard core right extremists tell me, I vote with a brain.

Good for you.

Seriously, you should try it. Vote according to the issue and the person, not according to party or church dogma.

I always have. That's why I don't like either of them.

You whine about my referring to McDummy as McDummy yet you use your subtle (or not so subtle) slams by assuming you have a freak'en clue about my political beliefs and opinions.

Please show me where I have "whined" about you calling him McDummy. Frankly I don't care. But what I DID say in one post this morning is that the left is constantly calling those they disagree with derogatory names. Why is that? Why are SO MANY on the oh-so-tolerant left such a hateful, name-calling bunch? They can't simply disagree with the person or the issues, they have to call them names. It's like children on a playground.

Again, do us all a favor and get over yourself. I'm tired of the insults you throw around and silly threads you start trying to show your superiority. I have news for you, it isn't working.

You really do hate opposition, don't you? Why is that? Anybody who doesn't sing Hail Obama, Messiah of Mine is labled and derided by the likes of you. I guess that's what happens when one drinks too much of the kool-aid. Just can't handle an opposing view. Very sad.

By the way, have you come against anybody in the anti-McCain threads who have been hurling insults at the right? Even once? I betcha you haven't.

What's to get over?? I'm simply posting my viewpoint as you and others have. Why is it that the left always wants to silence the opposition? Y'all are lilke little commies running around, trying to bully those who disagree with you. Why is that?

Who ever said I was? ROTFLMAO!

Uh, Kettle? Yeah, Pot here. You're black. LOL

Couldn't care less.

No, what I see is anybody clinging onto that socialist like he's the second coming of Christ really has a screw loose. If the shoe fits, I'm sorry, but I didn't put you there. As for McCain, he's simply what the democrats were about 20 years ago. He's not my representative.

Good for you.

I always have. That's why I don't like either of them.

Please show me where I have "whined" about you calling him McDummy. Frankly I don't care. But what I DID say in one post this morning is that the left is constantly calling those they disagree with derogatory names. Why is that? Why are SO MANY on the oh-so-tolerant left such a hateful, name-calling bunch? They can't simply disagree with the person or the issues, they have to call them names. It's like children on a playground.

You really do hate opposition, don't you? Why is that? Anybody who doesn't sing Hail Obama, Messiah of Mine is labled and derided by the likes of you. I guess that's what happens when one drinks too much of the kool-aid. Just can't handle an opposing view. Very sad.

By the way, have you come against anybody in the anti-McCain threads who have been hurling insults at the right? Even once? I betcha you haven't.

Oh my goodness, you just keep proving my point. Over and over again.

Obama is going to win, deal with it.

re: "McCain hired the very people that trashed him and his family during the 2000 election. So much for having an ounce of moral Fiber."

Would that 'moral fiber' be of those who hire themselves on to the employ of someone they formerly castigated? Who have sold their sweat and the beat of their heart to someone to make a paycheck? Whose sense of values is for sale to whoever pays them?

Or can we allow they had a change of opinion. Perhaps their employment has little to do with what they believe, and more to do with what they are skilled at doing. And if they were so against Sen McCain in the first place, why would they go to work for him in the second place?

Are you kidding me? He hired them because they are good at what they do, just so he can realize his dream. Sorry, but that's pathetic. That's what you call winning at any cost. We already had one of those in office and look where that feeble-minded oaf got us.

Oh my goodness, you just keep proving my point. Over and over again.

Obama is going to win, deal with it.

As you keep proving mine. lol

Yes, I know, I posed hard questions. The Obama playbook says to slaughter the messenger and then storm off in a huff. Way to go.

By the way, I went to the "WHY are people voting for McCain" thread and in 30 pages, not once did you come down against anybody attacking those on the right. Why is that? Unless you are more biased and one-sided than you give yourself credit for, that is. But then again, I could see that without even having to go look. :cursing:

Newsflash, BethFromVA! We have already turned into a socialist economy....hello, 800 billion dollars worth of it...well, so far anyway.

Has it occurred to you that they have to raise taxes to pay for all of the mistakes the Bush Administration has made? How do you think the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are being paid for? How is the financial meltdown being paid for? How is social security and medicare being paid for? You must still believe in Santa Claus.

As you keep proving mine. lol

Yes, I know, I posed hard questions. The Obama playbook says to slaughter the messenger and then storm off in a huff. Way to go.

By the way, I went to the "WHY are people voting for McCain" thread and in 30 pages, not once did you come down against anybody attacking those on the right. Why is that? Unless you are more biased and one-sided than you give yourself credit for, that is. But then again, I could see that without even having to go look. :cursing:

No, I haven't even read the thread you refer to. I rarely jump in a thread without reading the whole thing. I have no desire to start at the beginning.

You extreme religious righties keep on keeping on. You are pushing more people towards Obama with your silly scare tactics and extremist ideas. Although... to be honest we Obama supporters really don't need your help anymore, do we? ;o)

I'm very bored with your insults and slams. When you can put your big girl panties on and be just a tad rational, be sure to let me know.

In the meantime, it's time to move on to adult discussions such as how DSers poop too much. Heh...

No, I haven't even read the thread you refer to. I rarely jump in a thread without reading the whole thing. I have no desire to start at the beginning.

You extreme religious righties keep on keeping on. You are pushing more people towards Obama with your silly scare tactics and extremist ideas. Although... to be honest we Obama supporters really don't need your help anymore, do we? ;o)

Uh-huh... :cursing:

I'm very bored with your insults and slams. When you can put your big girl panties on and be just a tad rational, be sure to let me know.

You seem hardly bored since you keep coming back and working yourself up in a lather. As for the big girl panites, the only one I've seen getting upset is you. You're nearly shrill. Take a deep breath and, oh I dunno, get over yourself already.