If you are working out for any meaningful length of time, you have a supplementation stack that is working for you. Honestly, I am still trying to figure mine out and could use some suggestions. What do you take to make real gains on your workout days ( resistance, not cardio).

Pre workout meal

Is it good to have a non fructose carb here? I have been eating 1/2 apple or 1/2 banana with nut butter and 2-3 oz chicken. I read that the liver probably converts fruit into fat so what else should I be carbing up on? I do not et breads or starches so not sure what else there is to try. Maybe I should lax a little and eat sweet potatoes? What are your suggestions.

Pre workout

I like Hyde and c4. I cycle between them. I also take a good amino acid cocktail to open up my muscles. It really does help to take something like catalyst. Have any of you tried b4? That one looks good also as a fat burner. Have any of you taken stacker 2 or anything like that before working out for the thermogenic and extreme energy? Let me know your thoughts.

Recovery shake

Here is where I could use some feedback. I have been taking wheybolic 60 for many months now, but feel it is not functionally making the most use of my workout. I take 40 g. I also tried Isopure, but do not care for the taste too much. Please talk to me about recovery shakes that are really going to take the recovery process to another level. I want powerful stuff. Do not talk to me about the typical WLS Protein powders like nectar, matrix, unjury, etc. they have their place, but not as a recovery shake for making big gains in fitness and body composition.

Bedtime shake

Here I have been using ON gold standard casein for many months ( double chocolate, yummy). Love the flavor and it always, and I mean always, helps lean me out over night. I am tighter and weigh less because of the casein shake. This last week I have tred GNC refeed, but it tastes too much like monkey butt. Really despise the taste, but it seems to work well. I read a lot of the fitness mags so see page after page of different ads for nighttime shakes. What is the best and most effective?

Any and all input is welcome. I have had good results as dropped 15 lb in last 2 months and gained 5 lb lean muscle putting me at around 180, which feels pretty good for my 5'11" frame. However, I want to do better. Educate me!

Gee Fiddle. Clearly you are way above the rest of us judging by the lack of response. Just thought I'd help you and bump this up so maybe you get some answers today

Pre workout I'm a massive fan of assault (green apple being my fav). I think you're gonna get better workout info from bodybuilding.com.

Thanks for the bump and the nod towards bodybuilder site. I may just need to do that. I also like gathering information from cross fit sites and mags like men's fitness and men's health. Any other mags that are really good for filling out the knowledge base that would be useful? I am not really into the hard core lifting mags (sorry, mark!), but more into the functional body weight exercises, some lifting as it pertains to cross fit and Paleo nutrition. Hate to say one of my cross addictions is supplementation now as a post op in order to get the most out of my workouts and general fitness. Maybe it is good. Maybe it is bad. However, it is definitely rough on my wallet. I am starting to really home in on a stack that is working well for my needs, but am always looking for ways to improve.

Gee Fiddle. Clearly you are way above the rest of us judging by the lack of response. Just thought I'd help you and bump this up so maybe you get some answers today

Ditto here Fiddle, but happy to bump the thread for you!

Before lifting I take the following. Keep in mind this is usually taken for 5 weeks during my cycle of training when I'm ramping up weights to competition level, the 6th week is a deload week, 7th adn 8th week are accessory cardio and overload pyramid training with bands and bench accessories. Creatine always felt like a waste of time until I started taking more than what was recommended. I'll usually start this stack once either I schedule a meet or a sponsor says I have to compete in a particular meet for them. During my regular phases or training I cut the dose of each supplement in half, except for creatine, I keep high and I don't cycle it on and off. I have my blood work checked monthly for other panels and my kidneys are always functioning as they should be.

2 teaspoons of creatine monohydrate

1 teaspoon of bete-alanine

3 teaspoons of BCAA

1 teaspoon of L-arginine

1 teaspoon citruline malatate

1 teaspoon of l-glutamine

1 packet of crystal light to make it taste less like ass.

After my session I usually down 2 more teaspoons of creatine monohydrate and 3 teaspoons of BCAA's along with a teaspoon each of l-arginine and l-glutamine for any soreness the next day.

Not only does this stack fuel through my lifting, it also helps diminish any soreness, and helps me get back under the bar the next day. Right now, I weigh 290, when my buddies and I came up with this I was weighing around 380, and my buddy was sitting around 360, since then I've toyed with the idea of cutting back on some of the doses, but I haven't had any ill effects.

Thanks Mark for your description. You have been the catalyst way back when in getting me interested in strength training and supplementation.

The list is wonderful so now I have some more supplementation to learn about. I have already got some of those in my pre workout shake and post workout shake. Additionally, I take creatine before and after the workouts. I would like to dive into a creatine discussion if you do not mind.

I see that you take 10 g of creatine before and after the workout. The recommended dose on the monohydrate says 5 g. I currently am taking 1250 mg creatine hydrochloride before and after working out. I was not really getting much in terms of result from taking the creatine monohydrate at 5 g a day so switched to creatine hydrochloride on the advise of a rep.

Would you suggest I would get better result from the monohydrate if I dosed at 5 g before and 5 g after? Or should I stick with the hydrochloride and increase dose to 5 g before and 5 g after. The recommended dose of the hydrochloride is 1250 mg a day and I am already taking 2x that.

Results have been good so far. Since mid May I have gone from 188 lb @ 19% body fat to 180 lb @ 14 % body fat. It is kind of interesting to see the body fat % drop 1% and still see the scale parked at 180 from last week to this week. Let me tell you that dropping 1% is hard work and requires one to keep showing up and busting ass. My goal is to hit 10 % body fat. Since mid may I have made big gains in strength as functionally applied to my lifting and in terms of stamina / endurance as applied to cross fit.

One other question I have for you. Who are your role models? Who do you look at to model your eating plan, supplementation or strength programs after?

Not sure if you have heard of Tom Venuto. He has a blog here:

http://www.burnthefatblog.com/

I read his e book way back in 2006 before it became widely available. However, I did not absorb much back then because my health and fitness goals are nowhere near where they are now. I like his natural approach to getting strong. He is also very real and down to earth is his communication and presentation.

Again, thanks in advance for your response.

Ditto here Fiddle' date=' but happy to bump the thread for you![/quote']

Don- nice avatar. I do have to say you have been making quite the progress in leaning out and popping those abs.

Thanks Mark for your description. You have been the catalyst way back when in getting me interested in strength training and supplementation.

The list is wonderful so now I have some more supplementation to learn about. I have already got some of those in my pre workout shake and post workout shake. Additionally' date=' I take creatine before and after the workouts. I would like to dive into a creatine discussion if you do not mind.

I see that you take 10 g of creatine before and after the workout. The recommended dose on the monohydrate says 5 g. I currently am taking 1250 mg creatine hydrochloride before and after working out. I was not really getting much in terms of result from taking the creatine monohydrate at 5 g a day so switched to creatine hydrochloride on the advise of a rep.

Would you suggest I would get better result from the monohydrate if I dosed at 5 g before and 5 g after? Or should I stick with the hydrochloride and increase dose to 5 g before and 5 g after. The recommended dose of the hydrochloride is 1250 mg a day and I am already taking 2x that.

Results have been good so far. Since mid May I have gone from 188 lb @ 19% body fat to 180 lb @ 14 % body fat. It is kind of interesting to see the body fat % drop 1% and still see the scale parked at 180 from last week to this week. Let me tell you that dropping 1% is hard work and requires one to keep showing up and busting ass. My goal is to hit 10 % body fat. Since mid may I have made big gains in strength as functionally applied to my lifting and in terms of stamina / endurance as applied to cross fit.

One other question I have for you. Who are your role models? Who do you look at to model your eating plan, supplementation or strength programs after?

Not sure if you have heard of Tom Venuto. He has a blog here:

http://www.burnthefatblog.com/

I read his e book way back in 2006 before it became widely available. However, I did not absorb much back then because my health and fitness goals are nowhere near where they are now. I like his natural approach to getting strong. He is also very real and down to earth is his communication and presentation.

Again, thanks in advance for your response.[/quote']

Mark - I started taking 10 g of the creatine monohydrate before and another 10 g after my workouts this week. The difference is huge! Really makes a difference in muscle growth. I ran the dosing by my trainer today and she said it is fine. She said most lifters actually dose a lot more in the cross fit Box, but then went on to say more is wasting it. The 20 g is a good amount in her opinion.

During my workout today with the trainer, I actually improved my dead lift substantially and lifted 310 for my max 1 rep. The hardest park is that initial elevation from ground to knees. I let the air out during the second 1/2 of the lift and the weight just slides up as long as form is textbook, like butter. It is neat really paying attention to the fine details for improving the execution of different lifts. My weakest lift right now is a clean above the shoulders at 95. No leg movement or jerk, just straight up with straight arms.

On the side, I am practicing military presses to improve shoulder and upper back strength so I can do these cleans with heavier weight. My squats are also doing pretty well today with my 1 rep Max at 250. Maybe in a couple months I can move onto some of the power lifts, such as the Olympic lift. This is probably baby stuff compared to what you do, but any advice is appreciated. Thanks.

Before lifting I take the following. Keep in mind this is usually taken for 5 weeks during my cycle of training when I'm ramping up weights to competition level' date=' the 6th week is a deload week, 7th adn 8th week are accessory cardio and overload pyramid training with bands and bench accessories. Creatine always felt like a waste of time until I started taking more than what was recommended. I'll usually start this stack once either I schedule a meet or a sponsor says I have to compete in a particular meet for them. During my regular phases or training I cut the dose of each supplement in half, except for creatine, I keep high and I don't cycle it on and off. I have my blood work checked monthly for other panels and my kidneys are always functioning as they should be.

2 teaspoons of creatine monohydrate

1 teaspoon of bete-alanine

3 teaspoons of BCAA

1 teaspoon of L-arginine

1 teaspoon citruline malatate

1 teaspoon of l-glutamine

1 packet of crystal light to make it taste less like ass.

After my session I usually down 2 more teaspoons of creatine monohydrate and 3 teaspoons of BCAA's along with a teaspoon each of l-arginine and l-glutamine for any soreness the next day.

Not only does this stack fuel through my lifting, it also helps diminish any soreness, and helps me get back under the bar the next day. Right now, I weigh 290, when my buddies and I came up with this I was weighing around 380, and my buddy was sitting around 360, since then I've toyed with the idea of cutting back on some of the doses, but I haven't had any ill effects.[/quote']

Mark (or anyone else) - I have been thinking more and more about formulating my own pre workout drink because frankly the commercial ones are hit and miss for me. The best one I have tried so far has been c4. Others just do not give me the physical response needed. I understand everyone is different in how the products affect them. Tired of dumping money not pre workouts that do not help me.

So I came back to this thread again specifically wanting to look up your recipe that I remembered. Now that I am much more well-versed in the ingredients you have listed and more research done over the last couple months, what do you think about replacement or addition of the following ingredients:

4-5 g SAA - Silk Amino Acids- for better Protein synthesis (instead of standard BCAA)

250-350 mg caffeine - again, energy, dose depends on time of day and desired physical response

1 tsp Electrolyte powder - replace lost electrolytes from sweating them out

5-6 g Citruline Malate - vasculation for improved power (instead of nitrous oxide that you see in NO pre workouts) and muscle soreness recovery (instead of l-glutamate).

I also notice you do not have Taurine in the list. Any particular reason why? Is it because it is a conditional amino acid versus an essential amino acid?

As an aside - I have been watching the hodge twins on you tube and have to say those two crack me up every time in their bro science meat head explanations on supplementation and other topics related to body building. Not that I take them as scientifically accurate, but I tune in to them for good entertainment value and bro science. you watch them? Hilarious.