Being sarcastic, of course. Part of my responsibilities as a grad student is to teach a couple of non-majors' biology labs per week. We gave final exams this week. My last lab was yesterday at 8 AM. I made a point of telling my students at the beginning of the semester that if they couldn't go to my lab for any reason, to go to one of the other 30 labs that are taught during the week. During exams, I shut the door so that we won't be disturbed. Apparently, one of my students showed up a little late yesterday and I had already shut the door and started the exam. Instead of knocking to see if I would let her in (she was only about 10 minutes late), she left. I got an email from her this afternoon saying that she wasn't able to go to any of the Friday labs. I basically told her that she would have to take a zero for the exam. I looked up her schedule, and there were a couple of labs she could have gone to yesterday if she had bothered to check.

The moral of this story? Don't wait until the last day of the final exam week to see if there are any labs you can fit into your schedule. No matter what you may think, being late is not a valid excuse, especially for the first class of the day! I am not going to set up a special lab time for you to take the exam because you were too lazy to check and see if you could fit one of the other labs into your schedule until it was too late.

Don't get me wrong, I have been late to classes of my own before. But it seems like common sense to me that if you miss the freaking final exam, to email the instuctor immediately and see if you can find another lab where you can take the test. You don't wait until the last day of the exam week to see if there are any labs you can go to. To me, if you are that lacking in common sense, you probably deserve to fail the freaking class.

Ah yes. College. I remember how stupid I was then - but I was NEVER that dumb.

:]

I suppose she was trying to see if you could give her a make-up exam or something?

*sigh*

10 to 1 she is calling you unflattering names to her friends right now - even though SHE was the idiot.

Whatcha gonna do?

Some folks just never get it.

Take a deep cleansing breath - and hope she ends up in somebody elses labs when she comes back to re-take the class!

:]

Yeah, I emailed the lab coordinator and told him my side of the story just in case she decides to go whining to him about not being allowed to take the final exam.

My philosophy is that everone should take responsibility for their education. You get up early enough that you can get to class on time, you turn off your cell phone in class, and you don't expect instructors to make exceptions for you. If you are having problems, you let the instructor know immediately.

For example, some of the people that took my labs last year were absolutely unmatched in laziness. I offered the opportunity to get more than 10% of their entire lab grade in extra credit, a total of 22 points when their lab grade was only 200 points. They had the opportunity to increase their grade drastically. Did many of them try? No. I had a lot of people that just never bothered to take advantage of it. Of course, they then emailed me at the end of the semester, wanting me to offer more extra credit. All I said was, "Sorry. You had the opportunity and didn't take it. That's your fault, not mine."

I know it sounds like I am pretty harsh, but I really am not. I have even been known to tweak grades if I felt like the student had tried really hard. For example, the first semester I taught, I had a girl from China take my lab. She tried so hard, but the language barrier was giving her problems. When she got a 58.5 (passing is 60 and above), I tweaked her grade a point so that she would pass the lab. I have only ever done that for people that have actually put a lot of effort into the class, have come to me and asked questions, and have shown me that they were trying. I am willing to help them, but not if they sit around doing nothing and then expect to get an A out of the class.

College can be a huge reality check, especially for people just out of high school. They don't get the difference. In high school, the teachers are paid to get you graduated. In college, no one cares if you graduate or not - except you.

I went back to school 3 times before I graduated from college. I earned my degree at 30 something. When I started, I was one of those young kids who bitch about the old people ruining the curve. By the time I finished, I WAS one of the old people ruining the curve. Funny how one's perspective changes, based on personal experience.

My older students have usually been the best ones, except for the one guy that kept coming in to my 8 AM lab 30-45 minutes late because he didn't get off work until 3 AM. I finally had to talk to him after class and tell him that he would either have to start coming in on time or find another lab that fit into his schedule. It wasn't fair to give him the same credit as eveyone else that was there on time. But yeah, usually the older students are the ones that really take it seriously and stick around to ask questions. I have found from teaching early labs this semester, though, that either you get the really good students that like to get all their classes over early or you get the horrid students that were too lazy to register before all the later classes were full.

But yeah, usually the older students are the ones that really take it seriously and stick around to ask questions.

Pretty easy to figure out why.....they are the ones paying for their own education.

Yep. Not that a lot of the younger students aren't great, as well, though. I don't think it is just that paying their own tuition makes older students better or not paying makes younger students worse. I think how the student was raised and, to an extent, what their extracurricular activities are plays a major part in what kind of student they are. To be quite honest, I haven't had great experiences with many of the students that are active in either athletics or the greek system. I know for a fact that a lot of our tests are in their test banks. Not to say that those students can't be good on their own merits, but a lot of them are used to scraping by based on their popularity or being a good athlete.

If I find out that a student is an athlete or a fraternity or sorority member, I admit that I sometimes have doubts about how good a student they are. They have to have a minimum GPA and most of the ones I have had experience with as an instuctor and as a student myself don't try to get higher grades than they have to have.

I used to be like you. I used to care whether my students succeeded or not. I've taught in higher ed for 23 years and I've finally figured out that THEY have to care if they succeed. I still want them to succeed, but it's not my problem if they don't try hard enough. A word to the wise: Make sure your syllabus says "This syllabus is subject to change as needed." A guy at OU got sued because the student said he didn't cover everything on his syllabus. Also put in a section on courtesy. Mine reads something like this: "Students are expected to be courteous to the instructor and other students. Students who are unable to be courteous will fail the course." I make a big point of that on the first day so they know I'll fail them if they decide to take out their anger on me, which has happened twice. I have thrown rude students out of my class and told them to go to the Admin Bldg and drop the course because they didn't have a chance. I've thrown sleeping students out of class. But those are the troublemakers.

Most students are majoring in fun, as Carlene says. I did that as an undergraduate but got real serious when I was older and paying for my own education. I have very high GPAs for my M.A. and Ph.D. I worked like a dog. I just let my students who are majoring in fun have fun. Then they either get serious or flunk out. This semester half of my Comp. I class quit coming. Either I'll have a lot of Fs or a lot of drops. Often the freshmen don't know to drop the course. But we have all agreed that we had the worst crop of freshmen this semester in years. We have had worse, but this bunch was bad. I have found that athletes and Greek kids are not necessarily bad students. Some of them are very good, so I cut them a little slack if necessary. But at our school, if athletes cut your class you just call the coach. I have had coaches personally escort athletes to class. The NCAA is getting really snotty these days.

If you are feeling particularly cranky, I recommend Rate Your Students, a good site where you can let off steam. Meanwhile, thanks for teaching. It takes special people to teach, and the general public doesn't know that. Kudos to you.:clap2:

Hi.

I am one of those older students. My GPA means a lot to me. I give my best effort. I actually graduate Dec 16. I plan to continue in January, but that is one hurdle I will be glad to get past.

I like people watching and college is a wonderful place for that. It cracks me up to hear the crazy excuses that some of the students come up with.

I make good grades, but I earn every one of them.

wow you guys are harsh! I know that sometimes it must be very difficult to teach college students but it seems to me that you shouldn't be a professor unless you want your students to succede. College, especially freshman year is a very trying time. For most of these kids it is their first time being away from home, they have to deal with fiting into a new school, a new roomate, a whole new system of doing everything. To top that off the demands of the school work is soo much more than it was in highschool. Now I am not saying to let them off the hook but I just want to remind you guys that freshman year is difficult, and sometimes all that is needed is a little encouragement. I guess what I am trying to say is try to find a balance between strict and compassionate.

I teach labs for a gen-ed course, so many of my students are sophomores, juniors, and seniors that have put off taking the class. The way I feel is this: I am not there to be their parent. They are all adults and are old enough to know when they have to put effort in. My duty is to show them the information that they need to know and to answer any questions they might have. I try to explain it to them, but it is ultimately up to them to learn it by studying their lab manual and textbook and by asking me questions. I am not unsympathetic to them. I was and am still a student, so I know what they are going through. Still, it's not an excuse for being late, skipping class, or just being a slacker. Unfortunately, some people have to learn that their actions have consequenced in order for them to learn what they can or can't do. In my classes, the consequence is failing the lab. Usually if they fail the lab, they will most likely fail the entire lecture class and have to retake it (unless they have a high enough grade to compensate).

By the way, I've stopped offering so much extra credit. Now I only offer the extra credit that I am required to offer. Now I just sit back and wonder silently at some of my students, "Oh. My. GOD. How in the world did you even get in to college?" I also commiserate and blow off steam with the rest of the lab instructors. We sit and gossip about the really bad ones. That's my extra credit for teaching the course.

is the lab grade counted towards the lecture grade or is it seperate? At my school the lecture is 3 credits and lab is one. Is this your first time teaching a lab?

In this class, it is combined with the lecture grade. The lab is worth 1/3 of their entire grade. Most of the time, a person's grade in the lecture is similar to what they are making in lab. Since it is worth so much, if they fail the lab, they will generally fail the entire class unless they have done extremely well in the lecture. This is my third semester teaching this lab. I teach two non-majors' biology labs per week and assist professors in two education-majors' biology classes per week. I am also taking 9 credit hours of my own classes and working on my thesis.

wow you guys are harsh! I know that sometimes it must be very difficult to teach college students but it seems to me that you shouldn't be a professor unless you want your students to succede. College, especially freshman year is a very trying time. For most of these kids it is their first time being away from home, they have to deal with fiting into a new school, a new roomate, a whole new system of doing everything. To top that off the demands of the school work is soo much more than it was in highschool. Now I am not saying to let them off the hook but I just want to remind you guys that freshman year is difficult, and sometimes all that is needed is a little encouragement. I guess what I am trying to say is try to find a balance between strict and compassionate.

I don't know that it is a matter of being harsh, as much as it is a matter of setting a reasonable expectation that college is part of the real world. Yes...it is challenging and all brand new for them, but that is part of growing up and moving forward in life. I'm telling you guys...it is another sign of this whole 'entitlement generation' that we have raised.

The school system I work for (I hire teachers for a living) has a great program that allows teachers in critical shortage areas (in my case, it is English and Spanish teachers) to pursue an 'alternate pathway' to certification -- a partnership that we have established with a local college to allow them to take the GRADUATE coursework required (graduate is emphasized here for reasons that will become clear in a moment) to not only earn their teacher certification, but also to complete the bulk of their coursework toward their master's degrees. The program is a great deal for them. They pay less than 25% of the cost of their coursework (the school and college pick up the rest of the tab), they earn a regular teacher salary and benefits AND...they get a signing bonus because they are considered highly qualified by the state and NCLB guidelines just by virtue of being in the program.

The program involves some heavy duty coaching and mentoring, too, as they are doing the equivalent of their student teaching on the job in their own classrooms -- having had no pedagogical training prior to entering this program. They also whine about that...they think they are experts already and do not need it, even though it is a part of the state's guidelines for the program.

It's a great program, but what I have found is that this whole 'entitlement' mentality pervades it much of the time. These are people who are now embarking on their professional careers. They tell us they want to be treated as professionals, yet they do not want to take personal responsibility.

As you may remember from your college diploma, it says something about conferring 'all the rights and privileges' associated with the degree...(something to that effect)

Well, from what I can tell, about 50% of these folks want all the rights and privileges, but want to take none of the responsibility that goes with it.

You guys can probably already tell that I don't sugarcoat anything. I am very clear about the level of expectation of both the job and participation in this program. Keep in mind, that this is a program that is offered to people who would otherwise not be offered a teaching position because, without being in the program, they are not highly qualified in the eyes of NCLB. They are told upfront that, unless they want to sub, this is the ONLY way for them to get a teaching position in our system. I am very upfront with them going in. They agree to everything to get into the door, but once they are hired they whine about EVERYTHING! They don't like the fact that on class day they have a long day. (They only have class one night a week.) They feel that taking the educational coursework is 'beneath' them and that they know it all already. We have had two different profs who refuse to teach them a second term. They turn in sloppy work (one student didn't bother to type his assignments, but scribbled them illegibily on notebook paper), they don't show up to class, they come in late. The list goes on and on.

These are behaviors that they would not accept from their middle or high school students and these people are supposed to be 'professionals'.

I have taught my own kids forever that with privilege comes responsibility. I am glad that I have, as they have always been commended for the level of maturity that they exhibit, in comparison to a lot of their peers.

I am currently working on my MBA. At 47 years old, it is hard for me to cram schoolwork into my already full life, but it is a choice that I make. I have had times when I have had to turn assignments in late due to work or family situations that have taken precedence over my school work. I have a friend who keeps telling me that he thinks I should appeal to the prof to beg for consideration for full credit.

I tell him that it is not her problem that I am turning it in late. I knew the policy going in. I have turned in 'A' work that has gotten a 'B' because I was unable to adhere to the deadline. I knew the rules going in. I accept that 'B' and move on.

Lauren...I commend you. I think that doing anything less than what you do would be to do them a disservice. They have to grow up sometime. If they don't start to accept responsibility for their actions in college, they will struggle when they hit the 'real' world. Thank you for setting high expectations!

Thank you. One of the professors has a sign on his door that I walk past every day, and I really want a copy of it. It says, "Lack of planning or laziness on your part does not equal an emergency on mine." I think a lot of the students don't realize that. They have been babied to the point where they think that everyone should be indulging them, giving them extra time on assignments, etc. It used to really piss me off in high school, because the teachers would go easy on the athletes on game days. Athletics is an extracurricular activity. School should be the first priority. If you can't put your schoolwork first, you shouldn't be playing.

I also get really irritated at the people that cheat or whine about the class requirements. If they would simply put the same effort into their work as they put into cheating or whining, they would probably get an A.

quote

"Must. Get. Through. Next. Two. Weeks.

I have a week of classes and then a week of finals. Luckily, we gave the final in our labs last week, so I don't have to worry about doing that. I have a 20-30+ page paper due on Wednesday that I have only written about 1 1/2 pages for so far. I have been at my computer all day, doing everything but what I should be doing. I will be getting two take-home exams this week that will SUCK royally. I have to do a chapter in my experimental design class on my own and turn it in with the final for that class. I have to proctor the final for one of my professor's classes, too.

Watch me. I'll put everything off and then be up until 4 AM the day everything is due, finishing up.

Not to mention that I REALLY need to get started on my proposal and thesis, since I have committed to presenting a poster about it the first weekend in February. Have I done anything for it yet? Uh, not so much.:bolt:"end quote

They too will learn....it may just take a few disappointments, and learning lessons. Most of us think we can do as you say in the above quote, and put it all off til the very end, and then still get it all done. Unfortunately we sometimes are unable to in reality get it all done. Just like now I sometimes have a tendency to overfill my plate of food...there is no way I can eat it all. I also do that with projects, and tend to think I can fit 30-35 hours work into a mere 24 hours. And while I might actually pull it off---by waiting, I have not given it my best...it was a rushed job. If they fail it, they will either give up and blame you, or learn, and do it differently next time. It is my hope that you find some outstanding students to bolster your feelings of WHY you are doing this. You seem awful young to be so jaded over it, and unhappy in a career. If that is the case...as trite as it sounds, maybe you should look for something that you can enjoy and still continue to "give back". I agree it takes very special persons to be teachers...they have my utmost respect, but with that being said, a teacher who would prefer not to be there, or is miserable the entire time she/he is there, is not benefitting anyone. It is similar to the couple who remain married for the sake of the kids. When in reality everyone is better off when they move on to try to find happiness as opposed to staying in a stress filled unhappy union. Hope your next class is full of bright and shining students!!!

Kat