Okay, I know you guys are the only one's in the world who would understand this!:phanvan I have to fly US airways for buisness Dec 10th and return Dec 15th. With all the news on charging for 2 seats for heavy passengers I am terrified! My company paid for the flight and I couldn't imagine the embarassment if they asked me to pay for 2 seats!! :confused: Has anyone flown lately? Any problems?

Thanks for the help!

Turner24

I fly all the time, most recently was Saturday.

I have no idea what you weigh, your height, or general body make-up but I can tell you that at my highest (382) I was never asked to buy a second seat. I'm between 5'10 and 5'11, so for me 328 was size 32 or 34.

In all the flights I've taken, I've seen one POS (person of size, that's their terminology for us) held back and I've heard of it happening to one other, an old co-worker of mine.

I went on a plaine in Oct and it was a bit tight but was ok.. and i was at 241 at that time i am flying out today and i am at 230 now so i am sure it will be ok... I think its up to the person if they want to get a 2nd seat or not!!!!

Unfortunately no, it's not up to the person. The airline can pull you aside and require that you purchase a second seat before they allow you to board. If the flight is full, they keep the second fare. If the flight has open seats, they will refund the amount you had to pay for your additional seat.

Thank you for your answers. I too am 5'11' and 377lbs. I too wear a size 30/32. I would appreciate all your prayers that something that horrible doesn't happen to me!! :speechles

Lots of love for this whole group!:kiss2:

Turner24

Sunday, March 13, 2005

By Dan Fitzpatrick, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

All Murrysville dentist Michael Gigliotti wanted was a relatively cheap, last-minute flight from his mother's house in Florida to a natural-gas auction in Texas.

But a $552 bill for the late-Februarytrip quickly went up when a late-boarding passenger complained he could not fit in the seat next to the 5-11, 300-pound Gigliotti. A supervisor from Southwest Airlines boarded the plane, crouched next to Gigliotti and said he would have to pay for a second seat on the return flight, claiming the dentist's large frame would not fit entirely in the 17-inch-wide space.

Gigliotti did not feel humiliation -- just rage.

"This won't hold up in court," he told the Southwest supervisor.

"It already has," was her response, according to Gigliotti.

The exchange captures a touchy topic in aviation -- how to deal with larger passengers as the nation's waistline expands. More than one-fourth of Americans are now classified as obese, and in an industry obsessed with fitting as many people as possible inside a giant aluminum tube, airline seats have shrunk to 16 inches measured from arm rest to arm rest -- narrower than an average-size computer keyboard and a tighter fit than the typical office chair or general-admission movie seat.

"The airline seats are simply too small for a high percentage of the flying public," Gigliotti said. "We are getting bigger, we're getting taller, we're getting wider."

Southwest is not the only major airline with a large-seating policy. US Airways, Northwest Airlines and America West Airlines all can require an overweight passenger to pay for two seats but said they do everything they can to find a pair of empty adjoining seats on the plane at no additional charge. Midwest Connect, which serves Pittsburgh from Milwaukee, requires that passengers unable to fit in one seat buy two; if there are other seats available on the same flight, they will be refunded for the second.

But other carriers serving Pittsburgh, including United Airlines and Delta Air Lines, have no large-seating requirements. Hooters Air, an airline featuring slim, scantily-clad "Hooters girls" as flight entertainment, has no such policy, either.

"We love large people," said Hooters Air President Mark Peterson. Hooters, which flies from Pittsburgh to Myrtle Beach, S.C., has never charged for an extra seat, he said, and fitting a larger passenger onboard has never been an issue in two years of operating the airline.

While critics of Southwest's policy acknowledge that other airlines do the same thing, some said Southwest deserves to be singled out for its rigidity. "Southwest really expects its employees to enforce it, " said Mary Ray Worley, a board member on the Sacramento, Calif.-based National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance.

At other airlines, she said, "it seems to me their employees exercise a lot more of their own judgment in enforcing or not enforcing their policies. A lot depends on the prejudices of the employees involved."

The large-seating policy is nothing new for the Dallas low-fare carrier, considered one of the industry's most successful companies, having made a profit 31 years in a row. It initiated a "customer of size" policy in 1980, requiring a larger passenger unable to fit in one seat to pay for two. But the airline, saying it could no longer ignore complaints from slimmer passengers, began enforcing the policy more vigilantly in 2002, requiring passengers to pay for the extra space even if others were available on the same flight. A refund is made available if the flight takes off with empty seats.

Each case is a judgment call. There are no scales at the check-in counter. The test appears to be whether a passenger can sit in one seat without lifting the armrest.

The increase in enforcement, leaked in a 2002 memo from Southwest President Colleen Barrett, sparked a few lawsuits and criticism from fat acceptance groups as well as jokes from NBC "Tonight Show" comedian Jay Leno.

The negative attention was unusual for Southwest, used to glowing PR. Leno, in one of his monologues, stuck it to the Texas company, saying, "Boy, Southwest is cracking down on overweight passengers. Now any fat people standing in front of the terminal for more than 15 minutes will be towed." In another joke, he said Southwest had "been overstating each passenger's weight by 80 pounds so they can sell more fat ass seats."

Southwest spokesman Ed Stewart attributed the controversy to "entertainment value." He mentioned the jokes from Leno and said "the reason you do it is because you think you can get a laugh out of it and it is something that affects everybody." The constant attention has "nothing to do with news value." It is little more than "people liking to make fun of other people."

Most passengers, he said, like the policy.

"For every 10 letters you get, nine of them will say they did not enjoy their flight because someone was sitting on them." Stewart said.

A few, though, were upset enough to sue.

New Hampshire businesswoman Nadine Thompson filed a lawsuit last year claiming she had no problem fitting into a Southwest seat but still was asked to pay for a second seat on a Manchester, N.H.-Chicago flight. When she refused, she was escorted from the plane, according to her lawsuit.

Another woman in Spokane, Wash., filed a suit last year saying Southwest humiliated her in front of other passengers on a Orlando-Spokane flight, and that she spent the ride home in tears over her experience.

But no one yet has been successful in overturning the policy in court. In 2000, a California judge ruled that Southwest's policy was "reasonable and not discriminatory" after a woman weighing 300 pounds sued. The woman's civil rights were not violated, the court said.

But "I still think it's discriminatory to make me buy two seats," said the 5-foot-1, 350-pound Ray Worley, of the National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance, who often will call ahead before booking flights to make sure there is enough room. "I believe I am entitled to the space I take up. It's a basic civil right issue. A lot of people believe it is within my control to be whatever size I am. That is completely false."

When Southwest began enforcing its policy more strictly, it went before the National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance's annual convention in Atlanta to explain it. It did not go well, according to Ray Worley, who was there. If Southwest hoped to make the policy more palatable, "They completely failed. ... The impression I got was they do not want fat people flying their airline. They don't want our business. They want us to go away."

"What would make me want to fly Southwest?"

Airline industry expert Terry Trippler said his biggest problem with the policy is its lack of consistency. If gate agents on one end of a round trip allow a large passenger to pay for only one seat, then the gate agents in another city should arrive at the same decision. But it doesn't always happen that way, Trippler said, and "everybody doesn't always have twice as much money for the airline ticket."

"It's a tough call."

Gigliotti, the Murrysville dentist, also has a problem with the way the policy is applied. "I think there has to be a measurable standard," he said.

"The standard should be, can you put the arms down?"

Gigliotti, who said his shoulders are wider than his waist from weightlifting, claims that he was able to get his arms down "without undue stress." The company, on its web site, said the armrest is the "definitive gauge." But in a Q&A about the policy on its Web site, Southwest said employees can still question the passenger "if a concern exists. ... Condoning an unsafe, cramped seating arrangement onboard our aircraft is far more inappropriate than simply questioning a customer's fit in our seats."

Asked about Gigliotti's experience, Stewart, the Southwest spokesman, said, "I am sure he is a very slim 300 pounds" and it is "always going to be a judgment call." But every time the policy has been challenged, in court, "we have prevailed."

Gigliotti was not charged extra for one leg of his trip, from Tampa to San Antonio, but he was charged for a second seat on the return trip to Tampa, despite the presence of other empty seats on the plane, he said. He was able to get a refund by calling a customer service number, but the experience is still with him. He fired off a letter last week to Southwest calling its policy "arbitrary and capricious." He vows never again to fly Southwest, even after its starts service from Pittsburgh in May. "I just want the public to realize what can happen to them if they fly Southwest."

Went on continental last month....I'm 4'11" and 232, barely got seat belt buckled, but was with family so wasnt too bad that I ended up half in my skinny sister's seat....

I just got back from a business trip and I was terrified. Out of my 4 flights, 3 of them I was sitting next to someone, and thankfully they were of average size. They, of course, didn't say if it bothered them that my butt was blubbing out below the arm rest. I had an aisle seat and while it was more roomy, people kept bumping into me, and the stewardesses were no exception. They also did not apologize. Oh well, at least I didn't have to buy another seat! :-o I flew Northwest, btw. Size 26, and the belts JUST fit.

So how did it go, Turner24?

I think if the belt buckles then you should be just fine. I've sat next to guys with slim behinds and huge shoulders that totally take up more then their fair share. Are they going to make them buy an extra ticket for their shoulders? I would rather have someones soft, fat thighs rubbing against me then hard muscled shoulders digging into me anyday.

I think they keep making the seats smaller just to get more money from the rest of us. Discrimination comes in many forms!

I've flown recently, and I'm a big girl! (163kgs) But I got a window seat so I could cuddle into the wall, it was only a two hour flight, and the hostesses were always so good to me. They didn't even have to ask, they just brought me a seat belt extention and didn't ignore me when I asked for something. (Or get that look when I tried to get a diet softdrink, like I've gotten before at othe places.) And I guess I was lucky because the people I were sitting next to up and back were good too. On the way back, the couple had a baby so I think they were as nervous about offending me as I was of offending them.

But if you feel it'd be better, do get two seats! It was a bit squishy for me, my tray table didn't sit flat and two seats would have been wonderful. I could have used those tables. lol