BethFromVA

But the fact is, Lulu, that marriage started out as a religious issue. It always was, and for some still is, a religious issue. So for certain people to come along and try to redefine it -- it's less about separation of church and state and more about those who are non-religious trying to tell the religious what to believe and how to perform what is a religious ceremony for most. It's not as if the religious are coming by later on and trying to redefine it, it's the other way around. So you want separation of church and state, great. Get out of our religious institution and create whatever y'all think you need to feed your need for equality. By the way, I'm not mad as I say this to you (you know I wuv ya :smile:), but I pretty much draw the line on this separation issue when it wasn't US who changed the rules for marriage which was always religious until others chose to redefine it and now want to rewrite the rules. As for states deciding, again, it's the PEOPLE of those states deciding. That isn't the government -- that's the PEOPLE. There's a huge difference. People decide all sorts of things that they want their society to reflect: Grown adults not being able to marry children, goats, or a lamppost; those over 18 years of age not being able to have sex with somebody who's 12; nudists not being able to comingle amongst everybody else; etc. There are all sorts of lifestyles that many people, if left to their own devices with no laws to govern their choices, would choose. I've watched things change in my lifetime, and they have NOT changed for the better. Morals have loosened, stigmas have gone by the wayside, and people accept all sorts of things that were not acceptable at one time, and these changes have NOT made society better for it. I know this is getting off topic, but my biggest beef is that marriage started OUT being religious, and I believe that the religious are entitled to keep that if they so wish -- and I support their right to vote accordingly.

Actually, it's been called "marriage" much longer than this government has ever existed. I vote with my conscience, and I am fine with the results.

And as I said, I have absolutely NO problem with people being able to draw up legal documents to protect their significant others and themselves. There should be no reason that a person can't leave all their belongings to whomever they want, and as far as I know, they can do so via wills, etc., like everybody else. As for rights in hospital situations and the like, I also support the rights of those individuals to decide. I've been saying that all along.

I think you're exactly right, and especially for school-aged girls, it's about attention or standing out or just plain shock value.

I could go into numerous examples, but I'm sure they would be found silly. Simply the fact that some (not necessarily here) want to criminalize my beliefs by terming it hate speech or calling names like bigot, etc., in order to bully people into believing the way of the minority is a way of trying to take away my right to believe the way I do. If I understood you correctly in an earlier post, you deemed me (and those like me) sticking to our beliefs in not being for gay marriage as a "persecution of some of God's children [which] is not righteous and it is despicable." Your words. If I misunderstood, I apologize, but that is the way I took it. I would NEVER condone hurting another physically simply for being gay, but I also do not believe in "hate crimes" as I deem ALL crime against others as hate crimes. As for rights to marriage being Constitutionally guaranteed, I will ask you (as I have asked others in other political boards I've been on) to show me where marriage is a Constitutional right. I'll save you the time, though: It isn't. But if you'd like to look regardless and prove me wrong, I will welcome any proof you have to the contrary. :wink:

Sorry, not undermining the Holocaust at all -- I was speaking of things happening today. Though you're right, Jews still get attacked for simply who they are. As for Prop 8, are you sure everybody who voted against it was a Christian? I think people can be against gay marriage and not claim to be a Christian. As for why the "collective we" should abide by the laws that are voted on by the people -- because that is the way it's always been. Society determines what they want and don't want, and they vote accordingly.

I know that it does happen. My daughter watched it become a fad for many kids, especially girls. You can consider it silly, but nobody told you that you must adhere to that which you find silly. I understand how some people feel about this topic, but I don't demean it by calling it silly.

There are those of us who believe the Bible is inspired by God. I guess the truth will come out when we die and find out for ourselves, but for me, as I said, I don't answer to man on this issue. As for persecution, all sorts of God's children get persecuted by others, and the one group that seems to be most accepted against is Christians. I say that not to start a new thread within this one, but TONS of groups don't accept MY way of life, and I don't see the same people fighting for my right to keep my beliefs intact. As for homosexuality, in many (most?) cases I do believe there is something different there. I believe if a child of 3 years old is attracted to those of their own kind, that is not a choice. However, "being gay" seems to be the new thing these days, especially in middle- and high-schools. I remember my daughter remarking on it when she was going. As for condemning anybody, I can speak for myself when I say that I don't make an issue of it. PG may condemn people for what they do, but for me, again, that's not my job. I may barely make it into heaven myself for all I know, so it's sure not up to me to condemn anybody else. Like I said, I have my belief on the matter, would (and have) vote(d) accordingly if/when brought before the people, and don't answer to anybody else except myself and my God. If me exercising my right in the voting booth makes it dispicable to you, so be it. I can still sleep at night, promise. :thumbup:

I didn't mean to pull a PG on you, I was just showing where many people get it from. It was said that people misinterpret it, and I quoted it word for word, showing there really is no wiggle room (for those who believe in the scriptures). I have my beliefs, and they are mine. I only have to be true to myself. However, I do NOT believe in doing like some and bashing others with the scriptures. That isn't my place in life. I only used it as reference only, and if it came across as other than that, I apologize.

Don't like gum chewing either, but I am sexist -- I hate it WORSE in men. For some reason it makes me think of a used-car selling gigalo with gold chains, 70's lapels, and chest hair. :thumbup:

Omg, when we go out with our friends, it's like watching barnyard animals eat -- BOTH of them! :thumbup: I can't even stand it.

I bet. That's gotta be driving you crazy. :thumbup:

Hehe, c'mon, lulu, don't mince words with us. Tell us how you really feel! :w00t::ohmy:

Yes, I can, and WAY TO GOOOO!!! I'm sneakin' up on you... I'm at 232.5. Here's hoping that soon it hits the 220s.

You don't have to like it or agree with it, but she's just as entitled to fight for what she believes in as those who actively work against the sanctity of man/woman marriage, no?

Amy, at the risk of sounding like PG (and I present this for clarification only), here is the specific passage: Lev 18:22 - 'You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination. Researching further, it also says: Deu 7:26 - "You shall not bring an abomination into your house, and like it come under the ban; you shall utterly detest it and you shall utterly abhor it, for it is something banned. And the definition of abomination: a⋅bom⋅i⋅na⋅tion    /əˌbɒməˈneɪʃən/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [uh-bom-uh-ney-shuhn] Show IPA –noun 1.anything abominable; anything greatly disliked or abhorred.2.intense aversion or loathing; detestation: He regarded lying with abomination. 3.a vile, shameful, or detestable action, condition, habit, etc.: Spitting in public is an abomination. So though some may choose to interpret differently for their own reasons, for those who believe that God does not accept certain things, this is pretty clear-cut. Bigot or not. As for me and why I won't vote for gay marriage, I don't answer to man, I answer to my faith and to my God. I know many of you don't or won't understand that, but I have to go with what I believe in. I don't answer to anybody else in life.

Technically the government doesn't -- the PEOPLE do. In virtually every state that it has come up for a vote, it has been shot down by the PEOPLE. In at least one case that I can recall, the GOVERNMENT overturned the people's vote against gay marriage and made it acceptable.

And "spelt" (spelled). :thumbup:

Takes your mind (and the news' attention) off the bailouts, no? :ohmy:

Thanks, Alex. I noticed within about 30 minutes after this post it was working. :thumbup:

Ditto, Green, CONGRATS!!!!!

Omg! :thumbup:

I remember asking my mom about that when I was young. "Too" often means "also," as in, "I like that too." However, it can also be an adverb, as in, "I like cake too much." "To" is a preposition, as in, "I will go to the store." Sorry for the English lesson, but it helped me when I was young to understand all the to/too/two mess. :thumbup:

Omg, Kat, I'm speechless! :thumbup: That makes my domestic violence experience seem like child's play.

I'm saying it works both ways. Those who are hating on those who stick to their convictions, regardless of which side of the aisle they are on, can be called bigots by your very definition: "choosing to hold blindly and intolerantly to their view." Those on the pro-gay side that choose to lob names and insults to the other side can also be labeled bigots and haters against the popular norm. :ohmy: