Wheetsin

I'm here to research VSG, I don't have it yet -- but I do have an AGB. The day of my AGB surgery (my fiurst surgery, BTW) was the closest I have come in my life to a panic attack. I got to the hospital OK, got admitted, got to the prep area, changed into my gown, all OK. A little nervous, but mostly about the IV (also my first). After changing into the gown and walking back to the bed -- I froze. I couldn't get into the bed. You could have lit the floor under me on fire and I would have stood there & burned sooner than getting into that bed, I literally couldn't move. I very seriously contemplated calling the whole thing off. I couldn't breathe, and just started trembling & crying - almost unheard of for me. Good thing my husband was there to help me rationalize. I got into the bed, got the IV & hooked up to the monitor and my heartrate was something like 185! They asked if I wanted something to calm me down, I said YES - and poof. MUCH better. Moral of the story - tell them you're nervous up front, and get medical help. Gotta love the Versed, that wonderful Milk of Amnesia. They understand, and it's in everyone's best interest for you to be as relaxed as possible. They will help you. Second surgery (gall bladder removal) - totally different story. My mentality was "gotta do it" and I was almost ambivalent to it. No nerves, no anxiety, just a desire to be done with it. I was telling the nurse a recipe as they rolled me in, and I clearly remeber them telling me they were going to start my oxygen and saying, "See ya on the other side." Then I wake up to a bit of pain, and a nurse wanting me to finish giving her the recipe. Try to really focus in on the things you will gain from the procedure. I find that's often the greatest comfort.

Wow Tiffykins, that's quite an ordeal. I think I read in a past post of yours that your leak was from your esophagus? What was the issue with your band - were you an erosion? All in all, how long did your recovery take - until you could resume normal activity? My band is completely unfilled - fortunately. And while I'm told my slip is bad enough that they don't want to attempt a reposition or reband, it's not really messing with me that much. I'm "tolerating" it in such a way as that I don't present with many of the typical symptoms. But who knows what I look like on the inside. I know that from my band surgery, there is a lump of scar tissue I can feel from the outside (if I "try"), so I know it's likely to be an issue. I suspect my surgeon will put me on a significant liquid diet prior to any procedures. His "generic" liquid pre-op diet is only 2 days, but I've heard his revision diet is more like 6 weeks. I never wondered why, but maybe it's to prevent secondary or tertiary swelling caused by processing solids. I too have had someone tell me that revision patients are at 3X the risk for complications. I think I'd gladly take a second procedure if it's an option. I'll just tell him to use blanket sutures & mesh "just in case" -- just do my sleeve as though I already have a leak. Yes, how to treat leaks is on my list of questions, and how to diagnose: how many leak tests, when, which types of tests does he use, how frequently -- as well as his accessibility to me or other providers post-op. He's only about 45 minutes from home, but when I live 5 minutes from another hospital, that can be significant if there's an emergency.

Agreed. My guidelines for myself: call on 2nd day of no fluids, call on 4th day of no solids. I'm glad you got it resolved. In case your surgeon didn't advise you, you might want to stick to mushies for a day or two wen you get filled//unfilled. Two main reasons: being stuck -- let alone being stuck repeatedly and/or having to bring food up -- can cause a fair bit of swelling around our bands and swelling can cause foods to "sneak up on you." It cal also take a few days for fills & unfills to really make any difference. No idea why this is true, but I've seen it a LOT.

I stand corrected -- 1/4 cc is about .05 tsp. I misread the placement of the "." Not sure how I missed that, but good eye for detail & thanks for catching it.

Has anyone seen stats on the incidence of leaks specific in AGB - VSG revisions? I mean universal stats, not any particular revision surgeon's stats. My grandfather died of sepsis from a stomach ulceration, and an aunt recently spent 12 weeks in the hospital after a surgeon nicked her esophagus during a procedure to remove a tumor. It's definitely a risk that is close to home. (If you can't tell, I'm one of those analytical/data sponge type people!) It makes sense that 2-in-1 might lead to hier rates of complication, and the rationale for doing a revision in 2 separate surgeries make perfect sense. I wonder why the tendency is to do them in a single procedure. I'm also adding to my list of questions for the surgeon -- does he take precautions for this, what type of staple technique does he use, assuming I have significant scar tissue, what changes? Etc.

Just my observations... and if you're specifically seeking posts to help you feel better you may want to read the next paragraph & then stop. Good = With the help of my band, I went from a BMI of about 56 to about 34. That's something like a starting weight of 385 lbs to a low weight of 225, give or take a few pounds in either direction. That's also about 9 clothing sizes. And the majority of that happened in the first 18 months. (I maintained 250 for about a year and a half before I finally started dropping again). Bad = Most banded people I know are 5+ years out. These are people from my surgeon's support group, people I've met in person from the "local" section of messageboards, people I've coincidentally run into, etc. I'm not even talking about people I know virtually. Most of them -- and by "most" I'd estimate it around 85% -- have had their bands removed, or are showing some questionable symptoms. The more time passes, the less & less the band, statistically speaking, looks like a viable long term option. Do keep in mind that this is a support forum, so it naturally draws a large population of people who have, or suspect they have, some kind of problem and are looking for quick answers. You find a much higher concentration of people with problems here, than you do in the general banded public. I compare it to product reviews. Most people who leave product reviews are people who have had problems with the product. Average Joe user who never experiences a problem usually has no motivation to leave a review.

It may not make sense when you think about it, but even 1/4 cc -- which is about half a teaspoon -- can make a HUGE difference in restriction. I know someone (a nurse) who adjusts her fills in 1/5 cc increments. Point being, even if you get ALMOST full, whatever capacity is left is HUGE in terms of the difference it can make. I know it's natural to think "I'm at 9 out of 10 ccs and don't feel anything yet" and worry, but that 1 cc that's left will make more impact than the 9 already in there. I'm not sure if it's still the case nowadays, but a handful of years ago surgeons would sometimes overinflate the band if need be. I don't think it's condoned, but I believe they're built for it. BTW, I've had 1/4cc make the difference between not eben being able to swallow my own saliva, and being able to eat whatever I want.

I wish I had known... ...how much it hurts when something is stuck. "Productive burp" doesn't really sound like something that can be downright agonizing at times. ...that things getting stuck, and the ensuing pain, don't just happen when you make a mistake. Sometimes it really isout of your control. ...how inconsistent restriction can be. And that it would probably change over time. Multiple times. ...then the rates for complications now. ...I would be allergic to the leather recliner I bought to sleep in post-op. ...my surgeon was going to transfer primary patient care to a PA and stop seeing all but the most dire complications personally. Etc.

Except fpr the people who just come for the RnR forum. Yes, we have those people too. I honestly don't see too much clique behavior related to duration of band. I see it more related to personality types. I'm a little over 5 years out. I rarely have questions anymore. 99.9999% of what I post is to help others from my experience/knowledge/lessons learned/etc. If I do have a question, someone with a similar time out is probably going to give me a more relevant answer, so naturally that's who I'm going to seek. What cliquey behavior do you see, if you can give specifics? (Not linking threads, just observed behaviors.) I started a thread a while ago for people 5+ years out and there was VERY different information there than what you generally find here - and it's GREAT. Support is support, but someone newly post-op, or even a year or two out isn't going to have the same qualitative answers. Using me just for example - is that something you would consider cliquey behavior, because the title of my thread might exclude people who are < 5 years out? A lot of the bafflement I've seen here tends to root cause its way to natural stalls in weightloss. Keep in mind that very few people here really understand complex body processes such as metabolism. Or even weightloss. I'd hate for someone to be following guidelines, go some period of time without losing weight (fat), and infer from your message that they must have an erosion. I'm with you on the scale vs. fat (I've been preaaching weight vs. fat for the majority of the time I've been here... and awareness of BMR, and awareness of glycogen processes, and...), and I'm with you on the logic behind comparing weightloss rates, though I understand that comparison is our (human not bandster) fundamental mechanism for evaluating proper function of a system, and I understand that seeking benchmarks is just another aspect of comparison. I'm not the best messageboard personality. I don't sugar coat things, I don't encourage behaviors I think are harmful, I don't fall into pity party bandwagons, and I don't tell people what they want to hear if it isn't what I really think. And I don't deal well with the warm/fuzzy aspects of things. I try to share information and objective perspectives. That combination sometimes pisses off the general messageboard population. People here tend to love me or hate me, and it usually cones down to what they're really after when they post. Don't worry too much about people taking your post as a personal attack. At least you've demonstrated some "give a ****" and a bit of emotional investment in your health & theirs. It's not a bad model to follow.

I don't get that, but when something is stuck I know I'm ready to bring it back up when I have to fight to swallow. It's kind of like throat nausea, for lack of a better description. I'm pretty far post-op, but I never had pain related to swallowing when I wasn't.

Your band can't swell (other than counting fills as swelling) so you won't need to worry about that. What are you experiencing? It will be a lot easier for us to give an opinion on calling your surgeon or not if we know your symptoms, than for you to try and compare slip stories, find the one you most resemble, and act accordingly. In the same way that it's easier for me to list the toys my daughter doesn't have, than it is to list the ones she does.

Are you actually throwing up (vomiting), or are you brining up stuck foods/saliva? Totally different answers in terms of other damage that can be caused, what to do, etc. Need to know what's actually happening...

Jello was included in my clear foods. Different surgeons categorize their dietary requirements different ways. "Water" is a perfect example. Per my surgeon, Water is water, nothing else is water. So things like tea, crystal light, etc. do not count toward WATER intake. With some surgeons, Jello counts toward water intake. Don't worry about what's said on the forums so much as what your surgeon's guidelines are, unless you have some really serious reason for doubting their advice. I'm not sure why you can't make your own Protein banana smoothie...? Did someome tell you it has to be made by someone else?

Denials aren't typical assuming a few things: * You don't have an employer-enforced exclusion. Did you check on this? Just because [insurance company] doesn't exclude something, does not mean it is covered in your plan. * You meet the plan's medical requirements for the surgery. * You don't mee tthe plan's qualifications for denial (a concern more in future years than right now). WIth those conditions met, you should (not will, but should) be approved. If you are not, you need to find out the specific reason for your denial and appeal it. Insurance companies follow guidelines. They cannot arbitrarily deny procedures. Their rationale may not make sense to you, but there does have to be some rationale there. (Used to work for an insurance company)

There's also foaming, which is what happens when you bring up slime that has been churned by the esophagus a little too much, or too violenty, or who knows what. Like cream can become butter with enough elbow grease, slime can become foam with enough esophagus grease. Looks just like a really, really rich shampoo lather.

You should ask Jack about Triscuits.

I'm saying it, so it must be definitive. PB = I don't really use the term PB. If I'm going to call something a "productive burp," which I'm not, it's going to be a "wet burp" where I think I'm just burping, but bring up a little stomach mojo. I did that pre-band. I think everyone does that at some point in time. So it's not a band thing. What I do with my band is nothing like a burp. Sliming = producing copious amounts of thick saliva, presumably my body's attempt to lubricate the nugget blocking my stoma. Yakking = bringing up stuck food/water/whatever, because I'm not going to call it a PB. Mine typically involve the nice "hwuuuhhh" wretching sounds associated with vomiting, but usually just once or twice and on a much smaller scale. And without anything from my stomach being included. May or may not include chewed food. Almost always resembles egg whites (slime). Vomiting = bringing up stomach contents. Can you please use that in a sentence? I first suspected I had a slipped band when, after sliming, I finally yakked and noticed that it tasted a bit like vomit instead of tasting like the usual nothing/chewed food. I should invent a new term for the phenomenon when gagging/wretching is able to push the blockage through and you never quite have to full on yak. Many times I would be all set to yak (sink Water running lukewarm, stack of paper towels so I can wipe up my slime "slides", sleeves rolled up, etc. and I would gag/wretch, and only slime would come up. Or just the action of the gag/wretch seemed to dislodge the nugget. I always metaphor-ized that into wretching = toilet plunger action.

Thanks for the responses! I've had my band over 5 years. I'm not sure how long it has been slipped since I didn't have the normal slip symptoms. I'm guessing since 2008. I lost about 175 lbs with my band, and regained about 60 with a pregnancy. I'm now about 90 lbs from goal, was about 30. > My body is tolerating the slip well. I don't get sick, I have some reflux but not often, etc. I'm completely unfilled but still have moderate restriction, but I always had restriction from the start. My surgeon's PA suggested we could leave the band in as long as I did not present with additional symptoms or discomfort, and I considered that, but I'm wary of damage being done that isn't detectable until it's too late. And I'm too fat and too bad at maintaining weightloss to go it alone. And don't want a malabsorptive procedure. Which lands me here. For those of you not familiar with the "soft stop" term - some AGB patients have a physical signal that their pouch is nearing capacity and it's time to stop eating. That's the "soft stop." The "hard stop" being the pain/emission when you eat too much. A "soft stop" is often something like a sigh, or watery nose, or slight headache. I know some people who will sneeze, or their eyes will Water. I never had that, but when something was stuck, I would always hiccup & burp (together, more like a hiccurp) when I was finally clear. anonynurse - what did your surgeon do to detect the adhesions prior to surgery? Rev Me Up! -- did your surgeon detect the adhesions prior to surgery? My gallbladder was taken out about a year after my band went in. I do have some concerns about adhesions & scar tissue, how they will be handled, the impact on the procedure, etc. I know that with both prior surgeries, and just my tendency to scar, it may be a problem. I will definitely ask my surgeon about this. It seems like port removal can cause some complications. I've read 10 - 15 encounters of complications related to the effort required to remove the port. (I'm actually a little surprised they remove it, if it can cause that much trouble.)

I've been reading on here for a while now, and on OH but I don't post there. My AGB exerience was a bit different than the majority of what I'm reading on both sites (I really liked my band and had great results), and I'm having a hard time finding the information I'm seeking for one, and then pulling out the emotional ingredient to get at the fact. Please share your thoughts. I don't like surprises. I submitted revision paperwork to my surgeon today, but it will be a while before I can access him for Q&A. I've read many reports of consistent restriction from VSG vs. tha random restriction I had from AGB. Is your restriction consistent? Is it consistent both in terms of times of day you can eat and types of food you can eat? Does VSG seem to be effected by the same variables as AGB? (e.g. flying, stress, humidity, PMS/water retention...) With AGB "stuck" foods caused me discomfort or pain, often quite a bit of pain, and often for a fairly long time. Does food stick with VSG? I've read about people brining stuff up, but is this because of failure to pass through some stoma, or is it because of eating more than you can hold? Or both? Does it hurt like it did with your band? When it comes up, is it "saliva + stuck bits" like with the band, or is it actual vomit? I know some dumping can occur with VSG - do you dump? Is it on specific foods, or random? What period is the greatest risk for developing a leak? I see references to 2 weeks, 2 months... Is leak the (currently known) most likely complication of VSG? I see people talking about leaks, and pOuch stretching, but that's about it. Surely there's something else out there... WIthout the need for fills, what does your post-op care look like? Do you have periodoc leak tests as a bandster might have period fluoro or xray? What do you like best about your VSG? What do you like least about your VSG? What did you not know going in, that you wish you did? I keep reading "recovery is a lot harder than with the band," but no one really elaborates. Can someone please share their comparison of recovery? How hard did you find the transition in terns of behavior? I'm assuming there are shared rules such as chewing to goo, small bites, waiting between bites, etc. Do you have a "soft stop" with VSG? (I never had one with AGB, but I'm wondering if it exists with VSG) Did anyone out thyere have a difficult revision due to scar tissue/etc. with the band? Any bathroom problems? (e.g. the terrible stinkies DSers are known for) It seems like most people encounter significant heartburn. Is reflux an issue with VSG? Is the heartburn long term, or does it resolve after a while? Are your food intolerances (if any) the same as with your AGB? TIA...

What is spew? I only know of it as a verb. If you mean vomit - sounds like you are having reflux. Sudden onset of reflux can be inidicative of needing adjustment and/or slip. Notice I didn't say "means you have," so don't panic. Just do call and speak with your care provider about it. Before you lay down for bed, how do you feel? Do you feel "normal" or are you feeling any "stuck" feelings, or pressure that isn't always there?

It could be a lot of things. I've been banded a little over 5 years and my eating patterns have had to change about 3 times, mostly because of changes in the times of day I can tolerate food. A few due to changes in what I would tolerate (never had many I couldn't). Have you done anything in the last 2 - 3 weeks "known" to increase restriction? E.g. have you flows, been stressed, has it been particularly hot where you live, etc.? I would not have waited as long as you. By about day 4 of everything I ate getting stuck, let alone having to bring it back up, I would have called for an adjustment.

Shellylycz - a few things stand out: 1. I hate to tell someone not to follow ther surgeon's advice, but I would never advocate eating solid Proteins immediately post-op. In fact, your surgeon is the first I've heard of who ecourages it - let alone requires it. A graduated eating plan is part of a healthy recovery. You're still going to be swollen and I personally think it's irresponsible for your surgeon to have you eating the way you are. You're 3 weeks out which, IIRC, puts you around the thick liquid/mushy stage. You can go a little while without gobs of Protein. I would suggest trying foods like strained or blended "cream of" Soups, refried Beans, eggs, tuna salad, hummus, etc. 2. You should not be doing manual labor at this point, regardless of how good you feel. 3. Post pain post-op is normal. Many people find that it feels its worst around 3 - 6 weeks out, when they will develop stabbing pains, odd sensations when bending, lower tolerance for sleeping on their sides, etc. This is fairly normal and should go away within a few weeks. I think mine lasted about 3 weeks. 4. Belly button pain could be a referred pain, or it could be the site of a tiny incision from your surgery. (I had my GB removed under lap and was 3 days out before I realized I had a belly button incision). 5. If your surgeon is crazy, why did you have surgery with her? I don't know about the "stomach contents rolling around" feeling you have. Is it nausea? We do feel things differently with our bands. My analogy was that it felt like having two stomachs: an upper and a lower.

Great clarification, Jack. The distinction is one of my AGB golden rules, because if you ask me for help and you're "throwing up" what I'm going to tell you is radically different than if you ask for help and you're "PBing". Most bandsters have a significant period of (also significant) discomfort before they actually bring up the stuck food. It can just happen, but it usually does not. From the point that I feel discomfort, to the point that I'm ready to bring it up, is about 45 minutes. Yes, I've timed it and pulled an average -- wanted to know when I could expect the pain to finally stop. It's not like a vomit where - there it is. You have some control over how and when it happens. Once I really needed to yak at a restaurant, but the stalls were all full and my company was ready to leave. So I "held it" until we got back to work. Granted, I had the driver drop me at the door and literally ran to the bathroom, but I was able to control not doing it at the restaurant or in her car. It was not fun, nor comfortable, but possible.

I don't read anything hateful in that comment, but that's just the words on the screen. Some people do have to do it the old fashioned way - maybe that's all that was meant? Like when I turn on my sprinkler system and our neighbor, holding a sprinkler and hose, says, "I have to do it the old fashioned way." My assumption is not that he's annoyed. It could also have been a pure statement. Maybe WLS isn't an option they'd consider, or their insurance won't pay & they can't afford it, or there are medical reasons why they can't have a procdure done, etc. Once I told someone how much weight I had lost and the response was, "Wow, I can't believe you lost that much." I could have taken that as - "I can believe someone else lost that much, but would expect failure from you" or "How could you have possibly lost that much and still be fat?" or "You're lying" or a hundred other ways, when it was just meant as an innocuous statement. HTH

Thanks for the responses ladies. I'm curious to see how this pans out over time. BTW, I just caught my "do not have no band complications" up there. Yikes -- please ignore that.