Fanny Adams

I don't understand this. I am under the impression that not drinking with meals is so that you don't wash the food through the band, causing you to get hungry more quickly between meals and consequently eating more. However, if you drink with your meals but DO NOT snack between meals or eat larger portions at meals as a result, how does simply drinking make a difference in the weight loss?

It's interesting how doctors in the different countries approach these surgeries. In Australia, the Lap Band accounts for well over 90% of all WLS and I think this figure is growing, rather than reducing. The numbers in the link below are a little old (2005) but you can see that the trend is there. I know that when I first brought up surgery with my GP (PCP?), I said I wanted to give the drug therapy one last bash and if that didn't work, I would consider the surgery. When I went back after failing at that (yet again), he didn't bat an eyelid and wrote out the referral to the surgeon without hesitation. When I went to see the surgeon, he asked me (once!) if I had considered other types of surgery (which he also performed). When I said I had investigated them but would not consider doing it, he dropped the subject and was quite happy to recommend the band, with the warnings and provisos that it did require more effort by the patient. I find it extremely peculiar that doctors in the US are actually pushing RNY or DS in preference to the Lap Band. Obesity, weight loss and bariatric surgery - published by the Australian Medical Association Some extracts: "The surgical treatment of obesity (bariatric surgery) is the most rapidly growing area of surgical practice in Australia today.23 This reflects both the ability of bariatric surgical procedures to provide a solution to an otherwise insoluble problem and the evolution of safer, less invasive procedures. Today there are essentially three procedures in use: laparoscopic adjustable gastric banding (LAGB), Roux-en-Y gastric bypass (RYGB) and biliopancreatic diversion (Box 1). There is variation in preferred procedure between countries, often reflecting local regulatory and insurance factors. In Australia, LAGB is the procedure of choice in more than 90% of cases, with RYGB making up most of the rest...The key features of LAGB that have led to its acceptance are its safety, minimal invasiveness, adjustability, reversibility and overall effectiveness." 2 Annual number of bariatric procedures performed in Australia, 1994–2004* LAGB = laparoscopic adjustable gastric banding. RYGB = Roux-en-Y gastric bypass. * Medicare Benefits Schedule item numbers 30511 (LAGB and other gastroplasty procedures) and 30512 (RYGB) (from unpublished Health Insurance Commission data).

Congrats on the work you have done so far!! Sounds like you are very close to goal - good for you. I think the main thing left for you now (sorry to say) is exercise and more exercise. I don't think any diet will give you 6-pack abs - only sit ups and ab crunches will achieve that effect. It also sounds like you have lost your weight quite quickly, so your skin hasn't had much of a chance to adjust yet. If you work on toning up and resculpting your body, rather than focussing on losing more weight, it will probably adjust (to some extent anyway) as you are still young. Hard to predict because everyone is different, but worth aiming for. I wouldn't worry about the naysayers - they are probably finding it hard to adjust to the new you. Post some piccies for us, and we'll tell you how hot you're looking :w00t: *angles for some underwear shots* :tongue2:

Fair enough...

That's how I'm approaching it. I was never one for lots of junk food, takeaways or sweets. I had them now and then of course, but those weren't the things that made me fat. What made me fat was eating a dinner that should have fed 3 people at most sittings and pushing it to the equivalent of 4 servings on special occasions (that seemed to occur quite often :rolleyes2:). I'm trying to just stick to good healthy cooking, fat free as much as I can, and I use my sandwich plate as my serving size judge - if I can get it on the sandwich plate (no piling it up allowed!!), then that's what I'm allowed. So far it has been working for me. The loss isn't as fast or dramatic as it has been for some, but it is steady and I don't have any problems with hunger - feel full all the time - and no PB problems from being too tight. That's what I call the sweetspot anyway :cry_smile:

Hehe - know how you all feel! I had what I'm calling my Lamb Roast Victory the other night. Cooking a lamb roast (or any roast) dinner has always been a really pleasurable day for me and usually only done when having the whole family over (i.e. parents and grown kids). I was kinda sad thinking that I'd never be able to do that again or if I did I'd revert to my old bad habits and just pig out, but my daughter talked me into it, so I went for it. Did the roast with fresh garlic and rosemary out of my garden, roasted veges, broccoli cheese - the whole nine yards. Then I took my little sandwich plate and had: 1 small slice of meat (used to have 3 and go back for at least 1 or 2 for seconds) 1 piece of roasted potato (used to take 4 on the first go and 2-3 for seconds) 1 piece of roasted sweet potato (much smaller piece) 1 piece of roasted carrot (again much smaller piece) 1 small roasted onion 1 small floweret of broccoli with cheese sauce (instead of 3 big ones) 1 tablespoon of peas & corn (instead of 3) Homemade gravy with pan juices At the end of that I was absolutely stuffed but I had tasted everything and didn't feel a bit deprived! Probably a little more than I should have had but it was a treat and MAN was it GOOD!!! The victory part for me was that I didn't overeat, was absolutely satisfied, couldn't eat another bite, with less than 1/3rd of what I would previously have eaten in the first serving, let alone seconds, and had not one hint of getting stuck or PB'ing. I truly think I am at my sweetspot - loving it!! It's not something I'll do every night or even every week, but I feel so much better knowing that I CAN do it and enjoy doing it "bandster style".

Thanks for that, Jachut. Do you know in all the years I have loved and listened to Chisel and/or Jimmy, I've never actually read those lyrics before. They are great!! Not quite Anzac Day stuff but excellent nevertheless. Thanks again :rolleyes2:

I'm not sure I understand your problem, Aus girl. You say you are hungry but you are struggling to eat even soft foods and PB'ing/sliming regularly? If you are already so tight AND you are losing weight so quickly (you've done REALLY well!), why would you want another fill? It will only make the PB'ing and sliming even worse! I think you'll find that you will continue to feel hungry as long as you are sticking to the soft foods - you need to take in solid, high fibre food for the band to work properly. The only way to do that when you are so tight is to take extremely small bites and chew those absolutely thoroughly, waiting between each bite. I know you said you already do this but how small is small to you? How thorough is thorough? How long do you wait? I know I had trouble imagining how small the bites needed to be, so I asked around on this forum before I had the op. Several of the longterm bandsters replied and assured me that "small" means the size of the little pink eraser that you get on the tip of a pencil!! I was astonished - that is TINY!! And "thoroughly" meant chewing that tiny amount AT LEAST 30 times, more if even the tiniest lump was left in your mouth. I was also given a great tip on how to measure the wait period too - do not cut up your food all at once, make sure you do it as you go. Cut off a tiny piece, put it in your mouth, then put down the utensils. Chew and swallow in tiny sips, until it's gone. Do not pick up the utensils until every last bit has been swallowed. Wait a few seconds and try to feel how that is hitting your stoma. If all is well, pick up the utensils and cut off the next piece. I'm not as tight as you and consequently am losing more slowly. However, I am not feeling hungry at all. Iin fact, I feel quite full and satisfied at the end of each meal and this lasts well until the next meal time. I also have very few PB episodes - every one of them caused by talking while I'm eating and not paying attention - a single less than completely chewed bite is all it takes :rolleyes2: Good luck in your journey! Congrats on the loss so far!

[ame=http://youtube.com/watch?v=hHTojtx89Cw]Youtube rendition - not sure which version (there's dozens out there), as I'm at work and can't play the videos[/ame] And The Band Played Waltzing Matilda Eric Bogle Now when I was a young man I carried me pack And I lived the free life of the rover. From the Murray's green basin to the dusty outback, Well, I waltzed my Matilda all over. Then in 1915, my country said, "Son, It's time you stop ramblin', there's work to be done." So they gave me a tin hat, and they gave me a gun, And they marched me away to the war. And the band played "Waltzing Matilda," As the ship pulled away from the quay, And amidst all the cheers, the flag waving, and tears, We sailed off for Gallipoli. And how well I remember that terrible day, How our blood stained the sand and the water; And of how in that hell that they call Suvla Bay We were butchered like lambs at the slaughter. Johnny Turk, he was waitin', he primed himself well; He showered us with bullets, and he rained us with shell -- And in five minutes flat, he'd blown us all to hell, Nearly blew us right back to Australia. But the band played "Waltzing Matilda," When we stopped to bury our slain, Well, we buried ours, and the Turks buried theirs, Then we started all over again. And those that were left, well, we tried to survive In that mad world of blood, death and fire. And for ten weary weeks I kept myself alive Though around me the corpses piled higher. Then a big Turkish shell knocked me arse over head, And when I woke up in me hospital bed And saw what it had done, well, I wished I was dead -- Never knew there was worse things than dying. For I'll go no more "Waltzing Matilda," All around the green bush far and free -- To hump tents and pegs, a man needs both legs, No more "Waltzing Matilda" for me. So they gathered the crippled, the wounded, the maimed, And they shipped us back home to Australia. The armless, the legless, the blind, the insane, Those proud wounded heroes of Suvla. And as our ship sailed into Circular Quay, I looked at the place where me legs used to be, And thanked Christ there was nobody waiting for me, To grieve, to mourn and to pity. But the band played "Waltzing Matilda," As they carried us down the gangway, But nobody cheered, they just stood and stared, Then they turned all their faces away. And so now every April, I sit on my porch And I watch the parade pass before me. And I see my old comrades, how proudly they march, Reviving old dreams of past glory, And the old men march slowly, all bones stiff and sore, They're tired old heroes from a forgotten war And the young people ask "What are they marching for?" And I ask meself the same question. But the band plays "Waltzing Matilda," And the old men still answer the call, But as year follows year, more old men disappear Someday, no one will march there at all. Waltzing Matilda, waltzing Matilda. Who'll come a-waltzing Matilda with me? And their ghosts may be heard as they march by the billabong, Who'll come a-Waltzing Matilda with me? ************************************* Sadly, the year before last was the last one in which a veteran of WWI marched. All the old men have died now.

That's a big relief to hear - I was worrying about you! Well done for taking the sensible step and correcting the minor glitch before it became a problem. Sounds like you've got a good handle on how your restriction should feel now, so I'm sure you'll be posting even more success stories soon. Best of luck in your future journey!

Ahhh... I didn't realise that and thought you were commenting on average losses for bandsters in the long term. 2lb in 3 weeks is low for the beginning of a journey and is probably frustrating for the person, but everyone's journey is different, so maybe he/she will just continue on with the steady pattern. For myself, I lost 15lb in 15 days, counting from the beginning of my 10 day pre-op diet up to 5 days post-op. After that I regained 3-4lb, whilst still on thick liquids and only taking in 4-500 cal a day! My body played around with those 3-4lb for the next two weeks, losing and gaining them over and over, and drove me utterly mad. I think it was a combination of several things - the initial weight loss included a lot of fluid loss, which eventually evened out causing me to regain, the common body reaction to greatly reduced calorie intake causing it to hang on to every calorie it can find, my bad habit of putting a lot of salt on my soups in a desperate effort to get more flavour to assuage the hunger pangs after I healed, and that old friend ToM :hurt: It was after Xmas (15-20 days post-op) before the scales finally dipped below the 15lb loss marker again, but since then it has been going down reasonably steadily. It still likes to drop a chunk almost overnight (like 4-5lb) then regain 1-2lb and play around with that for a week or more before it will drop the next chunk, but I'm learning to accept that and trust that the losses will come in time. So are you on a pre-op diet? If you are, how are you coping with that - it is HARD eh? Good luck with your surgery and your journey :redface:

@laphappy40: Let me echo StephC's sentiments of concern. I find statements like "i can barely get water down" to be quite disturbing and am frightened for you if this is the case. Restriction is meant to work to help us feel full for much longer on much smaller quantities of food, not to reduce our appetites to absolute zero or be so tight that we cannot drink water. This is quite a dangerous long term situation to be in. At worst, you will end up PB'ing so much on solid foods that you could cause slippage problems down the track or be so tight that you cause erosion problems. At the very least, you will find yourself eating the "easy" foods that are high calorie/high fat, because they go down while good nutritious low cal/low fat/high fibre foods get stuck often. The result of this is likely to be that you stop losing or even gain, whilst all while "hardly eating anything", still suffering from head hunger because the low fibre foods don't make you feel full and possibly leading to malnutrition problems. @bandfan1: 3lb in 2 weeks is an average of 1 to 2lb per week, which is right on target for the band. Most people will find that they lose quite a few lb in their pre-op diet and in the first 2 weeks following the op, but after that it slows down substantially. The initial loss is exciting and gratifying but that is not how the band is meant to work long term. The idea is to prevent overeating, not to stop eating altogether, and after the initial rapid loss, 1-2lb per week loss is normal. To achieve a faster rate, you need to either add intensive exercise (a good method!) or decrease your food intake to dangerously low levels (not so good! see above comments to laphappy40). As many people in this forum are fond of saying, this is a marathon, not a sprint and we should be planning to be in this race for the long haul, not the short term. An average loss of 2lb per week adds up to 100lb in a year, which is a huge chunk of weight to drop and gratifying in itself. If you come into this with the expectation that you will be dropping 10lb per week, every week, you will be setting yourself up for later disappointment and possibly end up trying for more and more restriction and cause problems for yourself. Good luck to both of you, but remember - slow and steady wins this race!

"This semester, I've got a student that insists on calling me "Lauren" in his emails to me, and it really rubs me the wrong way, even though I've not said anything to him. " LOL! You'd hate to teach college in Australia then :redface:. It would absolutely never have occurred to me to call any one of my college or university lecturers by anything OTHER than their first name. I don't believe I have ever addressed anyone, be it a university Dean or corporation CEO, as Mr or Miss So-and-so, since my high school days!

Hehehe, don't get me wrong, folks. I'm usually still just as obsessed with food, which was why it was such a surprise to discover I had forgotten!! Still, I really have noticed a great lessening of the hunger daemon since my last fill - YAY!

This has probably been posted before but it is relevant here and might be new to some. I might just go and add it to the Headhunter thread too, for the benefit of the newbies who are reading that. LAP-BAND: Statistics subframe <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width=530 height=60>Laparoscopic Adjustable Gastric Banding In 2000 Consecutive Obese Patients: 12-Year Results </TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width=565 colSpan=2> Laparoscopic Adjustable Gastric Banding (LAGB) with the LAP-BAND is the most commonly performed surgical procedure for the treatment of morbid obesity in Europe, Australia and South America. Since FDA approval in 2001 the LAP-BAND has ranked second among all bariatric procedures performed in the U.S. and, to date, approximately 300,000 LAP-BAND procedures have been performed worldwide. Background: The purpose of this study was to examine 1,791 consecutive laparoscopic adjustable gastric banding (LAGB) procedures with up to 12 years of follow up. LAGB is widely accepted but its efficacy in the long run is questioned since long term results with a high follow-up rate are not common. Between September 1993 and December 2005, 1,791 consecutive patients (75.1% women, mean age 38.7 years, mean body weight 127.7+ –24 kg, mean body mass index (BMI) 46.2+ –7.7) underwent the LAP-BAND procedure. All operations were performed by ILOST surgeons, Dr. Franco Favretti and Dr. Gianni Segato, part of the multi-disciplinary team that developed the laparoscopic application of the LAP-BAND back in 1993. Results: The ILOST team of surgeons has performed the LAP-BAND procedure on more than 6.000 patients. Dr. Franco Favretti and Dr. Gianni Segato have just published the long term results (more than 12 years) of their own series of 2.000 patients. These results are unparalleled. There are no similar reports in the scientific literature. Results measured over 12 years included mortality, complications, weight loss and resolution/improvement of co-morbidities. Life expectancy was evaluated in an additional study of LAP-BAND vs. medical therapy. Patients were followed at 1, 3, 6, and 12 months post-operatively and yearly thereafter. Band adjustments were performed with barium swallow under fluoroscopy. Zero surgical mortality in the entire series. A mortality rate of 0 in 1,791 consecutive LAP-BAND patients attests to the benign nature of the LAP-BAND surgery. Re-operation rate of less than 5%. Major complications requiring re-operation occurred in 106 (5.9%) patients. These included stomach slippage + pouch dilatation in 70 (3.9%) patients (band removed in 20 patients–1.1%, repositioned in 50 patients–2.8%), erosion in 16 (0.9%) patients (band removed), psychological intolerance in 14 (0.7%) patients (band removed), miscellaneous (HIV, infection, mircroperforation) in 5 (0.27%) patients (band removed) and gastric necrosis in 1 (0.05%) patient (gastrectomy performed). If we exclude the 31 major complications of the learning curve period (first 100 patients), the complication rate is reduced to 4.4%. Unprecedented 12-year follow-up rate of 91% allowed ILOST surgeons to report reliable data. Most common co-morbidities were hypertension (35.6%), osteoarthritis (57.8%), diabetes (22%), dislipidemia (27.1%), sleep apnea (31.4%), depression (21.2%), hyperuricemia (27.1%), gallstones (8.7%) irregular menstrual cycle (4.9%), heart failure (1.4%), sweet eating (22.5%) and binge eating (18.5%). Average weight loss in the entire series of 1,791 patients. Weight loss (kg, BMI, %EWL) for the entire series is represented in Figure 1. At 10 years the average weight was 101.4 ± 27.1 kg (loss of 26.3 kg), the BMI 37.7 ± 9.1 (loss of 8.5 points) and the %EWL was 38.5 ± 27.9. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Wasa, I would never presume to argue with you on medical grounds. I have no hesitation in accepting your word for things in that area because I don't have the knowledge and experience to evaluate your comments. However, my skepticism was derived purely from non-medical grounds. The OP's comments about the Bariatric Surgery Industry being possible assassins and that there was a real danger that if anyone spoke out, they might get car-bombed is just utterly delusional to me. For example: "He also stated that he has been asked on a number of occasions to write articles on his experiences in various journals, but he has DECLINED to do so, because he would fear for his safety if he ever told everything he knows about the Bariatric Surgery Industry. He was very clear about that. He said that the Bariatric surgery Industry is a Multi-Billion dollar industry now, and doctors and hospitals are just making SO much money that they are ignoring some of the clear and present risks associated with the procedures, JUST TO MAKE MONEY. He said that if he told what he knew, he is quite sure that he would go out to his car some morning, turn the ignition, and be blown up. The Bariatric Industry is THAT powerful." If that doesn't scream paranoid delusions to you, I don't know what would! I know that the saying goes "you're not really paranoid if they are really after you" but honestly - do you think he or his surgeons are going to get car-bombed for speaking out? Another thing that really bothers me about this guy is that he DOES appeal to the hidden racist in us all. He makes allusions all the way through his posts that can never quite be pinned down but that will appeal to those people who already distrust "foreigners" and are therefore willing to believe any nasty story told about those "sub-standard foreign ways". You yourself have recognised this and have eloquently put the case as to why it is bullshit. Speaking for myself, I am from Australia, where the Lap Band surgery has been used for many more years than it has in the US and is generally considered to be far preferable to alternate surgeries, barring specific circumstances that make the alternatives more viable. Let me tell you, it is an uncomfortalble feeling being lumped in with "those Mexicans". I am fully prepared to accept your contention that the Mexican health care system and Mexican surgeons are NOT sub-standard. I believe this because I KNOW that my healthcare system and my surgeons are not sub-standard and I can recognise that no argument levelled at the Mexican system has so far differntiated between the two. "Foreign" is NOT equivalent to "sub-standard". Lastly, the OP has made a huge song and dance about how he is not looking for public support or endorsements but is simply "telling it like it is", yet he has consistantly used the language of media professionals in attempting to tell his story. When I first read the initial posts, I started to compose a reply that would list the MANY MANY times he alluded to "I have found a better way, I'll tell you more about this later". I gave up doing that cut and paste job when I saw how many other posters had already picked up on this stylistic telltale. I don't think it is necessary at this point in time, but I am prepared to do it if you think it might show something that perhaps you hadn't seen before. In conclusion, I applaud your open-mindedness and willingness to consider that this OP might have a valid point to make. Howsomever, I do not believe that this is the case - the OP is not just fulll of shit and worthy of the general contempt with which he is being regarded; he is also guilty of outright scaremongering amongst our new bandsters and potential bandsters and that is simply cruel and unforgiveable.

Ok, I posted this in another thread but it is so relevant to this one, I think I'll do it again: I think many of us, including myself, have a huge problem understanding what "restriction" really means. I used to think it would mean that I would never be hungry or that I would feel FULL like I used to after a Christmas dinner pigout. I am coming to the realisation that that just isn't the case. I do feel hungy at times, some days more than others, but occasionally almost as ravenous as I used to feel pre-banding. However, if I really stop and think about it, I don't think I could squeeze in the gargantuan meals that I used to be able to manage. Also, I am much more able to stop at a "reasonable" quantity that I have ever previously been able to manage - sometimes in the past, once I started eating it was like I went into a shark feeding frenzy, and no matter how much I "wanted" to limit my quantities, I just couldn't stop until the pain of almost bursting physically stopped me. In my first few months of banding, I kept looking for that same pain signal, thinking that that was what it meant to be "full". I am gradually learning to recognise and accept a new physical sensation - that of "not being hungry". It is very new territory for me and I don't always find the boundaries. Quite often, I will go beyond them seeking the "full" feeling, but I have discovered that even when I do, the feeling isn't the same. For a a start, it is in a different location that previously felt. In the past, I felt that distended stomach "oh my god, I'm so STUFFED!" feeling that I was (let's face the truth) ADDICTED to, in the lower regions of my abdomen. Since banding, I am ashamed to admit it, but I have eaten until I felt I couldn't force in any more food - and the feeling is SO NOT the same. It is higher in my body, it doesn't come with that same sense of satisfaction and gratification, but it does come with the same pain and shame! Since discovering this new "bandster" sensation of being "full", I am coming to terms with the idea that I have to train my body into accepting DIFFERENT levels of satisfaction, because I will never achieve the same feeling I felt before. That's fine with me, because it also means I am learning how to listen to my body and actually hear the signal that says "I'm not hungry" - which is something I have NEVER heard before. In the past, all I have ever heard from my body is "I'm STARVING - FEED ME NOW!!" or "OH MY GOD, THAT HURTS - WHY DID I EAT SO MUCH?" There was no middle ground for me. Now I'm finding the middle ground and I'm LOVING IT! Good luck to all of you on your journeys.

So vote, luluc, and let's see how the stats turn out :cry_smile::crying:

Hehe - I am probably just sensitive to the words "I matured early" because I can relate to them. If it turns out that there is no correlation, then cool, it was a wild idea and no harm done; if it turns out that there is some statistical anomoly in the correlation, then I would start to wonder why the link hasn't been investigated before now. I seriously doubt I have struck upon a new revelation in obesity causes, but I have to say I am curious to see the results - of course the first post after mine WOULD be one to negate the whole premise - LOL!! :cry_smile:

I could be completely wrong here, but I am sure I have heard the words "I matured at a much younger age than my peers" from many women in here. This makes me curious - is there a link between early onset puberty and obesity? For myself, even though I didn't start to gain weight until my late twenties, I suspect the tendency might have always been there, as I started "changing" at only 9 years old and got my first menarche at about 10 & half. By 12-13 years old, I was fully physically mature, sporting a C-D cup and rounded hips, even though I was only 115lb. So....at what age did you ladies hit puberty? (Sorry fellas, I just don't see how it could apply but if I'm wrong, please let me know.)

Yay for you - and now that you can actually feel it there, be careful not to push the limits further. It's no fun and really not good for you to be in a position where you PB all the time. I personally found that I had to re-learn the bandster rules all over again. When I first had the op, I tried all those rules about pencil eraser sized portions, chewing for at least 30 seconds, etc, but slowly got slack on them because I wasn't getting the pain inhibitor/reminder when I made a mistake. After my third fill, all of a sudden those rules weren't just academic anymore - they really meant something!! Good luck, have a great journey into bandland and don't forget - eat tiny bites, eat slowly and CHEW, CHEW, CHEW!!

Fair enough comment - and the test would probably work just as well using just the meat sauce. However, one of the reasons I thought of that dish is bacause it would show up any restriction if it was there, due to the nature of pasta. Like I said, I'm not claiming it was a GOOD idea but sometimes we need to feel these things for ourselves to really believe them.

OMG!! I forgot...FORGOT...to eat lunch yesterday!! Just like a slim person apparently does!! I've had friends tell me that they forgot to eat a meal before but I don't think I believed them, hehe. So yesterday afternoon, I'm waiting for the plane home and suddenly remembered that my lunch was still sitting in the fridge at work and I had completely forgotten to eat it - and I still wasn't hungry!! How cool is that??

Update! That carton lasted the whole swing away - 22 days in total, to average 9 a day! Whoohoo!

Here ya go, Ray: http://www.lapbandtalk.com/f5/ticker-tutorial-pictures-41782/ PS: And welcome to LBT!!