Fiddleman

Well, I am no pup - almost 40. I do not care that much about my appearance, but it would be nice to look 100% awesome with shirt off at the pool. Now I would say it is about 80% ok. The rest of the body is no issue - arms, neck, chest, thighs - all strong and muscular. Darn stomach is the challenge; it just does not want to get muscular in appearance. However, I can feel the strong core underneath.

I guess a question to ask: is it worth it? I mean both bean and Jane are considered athletic people, yet still made a decision the do the surgery with out of pocket cash. The pain. The recovery period. Both are reasons why I have leaned away from considering it. At what point does one decide to do it? Not meaning to derail anything about the decision you two made as I know both have thought through it quite deeply and for a long time. A good set of decisions, for you. Would you say the decision is highly personal and comes down to what you want out of your appearance? how you perceive yourself? How others perceive your appearance? At this point, I do not know what is the decision point that we should be considering. First off, I do not have the cash. Second, I do not feel unhappy about the way I look. Sure I have some loose skins in the stomach region, but I still like the way I look overall in the mirror. Strong. Good body composition. Athletic build. However, I can still grab an inch of loose skin around the belly button where I would like a six pack. I am secretly hoping that someday I will get a six pack from the workouts I do, but it hasn't happened so far. It should. Anyways, rambling on. Perhaps you have a more succinct way of identifying a decision point for athletic type folks. So guys - Should I find a reason to undergo the TT? Dunno.

+ 1600 m run ( 1 mile) Invictus workout today. 40 pull-ups 30 hand stand push-ups 20 s n a t c h e s @ 125 # 30 hand stand push ups 40 pull ups 14.53 m Extra credit + 3000 m row (about 2 miles) - 8 m More blisters to heal. kipping the pull ups, but they are still hard. Good strong workout yesterday too: 1600 m run (1 mile) 200m Row 15 Burpees 20 Back Squats 225#/155# 25 Kettlebell Swings 53#/35# 30 Wall Balls 20#/14# to 10’ target 25 Kettlebell Swings 53#/35# 20 Back Squats 225#/155# 15 Burpees 200m Row 15.25 m The workout yesterday is the start of a 1 month nutritional challenge at box. Person who loses the most weight and shows the most improvement in time takes home the pot. Everyone contributed 10 to participate. About 50 entered so 500 pot. yay!! I won't lose a lot of weight, but I am going to strive for workout improvements. I want to get better at double unders, kipping pull-ups and rebound box jumps. We will be checking this same workout in 1 month. Hit 120 m for October today.

As BTB says, casein is great for at night. I take mine every night for 8 months now and love that my body "works" during the night while breaking it down. Whey is best for morning when waking up and for after working out. A protein matrix (mix of whey, casin and other proteins) are good also during the same slots (morning and after workout). For reference, I take 40 g synth 6 (a protein matrix) in the morning, 25 g before working out with steel oats and some times 40 g post workout (not so much any longer as eat AMRAP bar instead). I take ON casein (50-60 g) at night.

That is such a thrill! Great job.

Hey - I am from Seattle area also. The nut was perfectly fine with us drinking coffee before and after surgery, with the exception of 1 day before surgery. That being said, you may find decaf easier on your stomach for the first month post op. I went back on caps, lattes and drip about 6 week post op. Starbucks of course. I drank coffee pretty consistently day to day until about month 7 when I cut way back and started to eat more paleo style to support better work outs. Today, at about 15 months, I drink coffee about once or twice a week. Just does not appeal to me much any longer. Good luck on your surgery.

That is one of the best quoting scripture out of context I have seen in a long time. Love it!

That sounds great you are getting into the Insanity program. You will see great results.

Gee, I am glad I did not read the posts above that give away the plot!! We DVRd it am are just watching it now.

I have to differ with you on the cross fit comment. First, Zumba and cross fit are not even comparable. Zumba is to cross fit like walking is to sprinting up a hill. They are on completely different levels. And secondly, all these compound lifts are part of cross fit. A small subset of cross fit. Other then this, I agree that these are good compound lifts for building strength and muscles. Your comments about using free weights and not machines are spot on. I would also recommend body weight exercises. They are very powerful in building strength and muscles.

My wife and I are in!

Hmm, retread what I typed above about the powder room and realize the double meaning. i swear it was an innocent comment...quite the Freudian slip.

Actually this whole talk about semen nutrition is nothing new here on VST. For some reason the women like to have big long threads about the protein benefits in the powder room (ha! See I do read there, just keep my mouth shut per forum rules). A simple search should satisfy your curiosity.

I drink at least 1 shake a day. My hard earned muscle would cannabalize itself (known as catabolic state) if I did not due to not meeting Protein requirement of ideal weight (lb) * .92. Sometimes i try to eat 1 g of protein per ideal weight. my weight is currently 172 and my ideal weight is 180. Used to be a fan of Protein Bars because they tasted good and seemed like an easy way to up daily protein. You want your body to be in an anabolic state for muscle growth so do eat as much protein as you are able to. Protect those muscles! My preferred bar was pure protein because high protein and low carb. The only problem is that they are slider for me and have recently been tasting really bland and overly processed. After tastes stick out like a sore thumb. So I do not eat them any longer (except in emergency) and instead eat a good quality source of protein and a small serving of veggie. For example, at snack time today (10 am), I had 3 ounces of bbq pulled pork (fairly lean) and an ounce steamed broccoli. Filled me up just fine. On most days, I do eat most of my meals now from real food and have a casein shake before I go to bed. Casein shakes are awesome at night because i always wake up feeling lean. On training days (5 days a week), 40 g of Protein Shake is mixed in with a serving of 1/2 cup steel oats 2x a day (once for Breakfast and once 1.5 hours before training is to begin). Not sure if you want to count these as "shakes", but I guess you can, placing my daily shake count at 3 on those training days. Sometimes I have a shake after training, but not so much any longer. Instead I eat an AMRAP bar which is higher in carbs (17 g) and a little lower in protein (14 g). Just what i need after a hard WOD. as an aside, Most doctors will recommend eating high protein and low carb to lose weight regardless of WLS.

Thanks both! Your perspectives are both very helpful.

We wish the best for you Jane. I know you will come out of this an astounding success.

I had a very nice breakthrough yesterday. An "aha" moment if you will. It may seem small to the average person, but huge for me. I was out shopping with my wife, lamenting internally and a little externally (as my wife can attest to) about my sore neck, shoulders and upper back. Basically, the whole thoracic region. And I thought to myself why am I so different from everyone else on this? Why does my wife not have this problem with pain in the thoracic spinal region when turning her neck sideways? So after asking myself a million questions, I started to really internalize why the muscles are so tight from the lats, through the delts and down the muscles surrounding the scapula. It occurred to me that my shoulders *can* rotate backwards to relieve the tension on all the muscles. I visualized the physical mechanics of it. I heard this a million times from my cross fit coaches and from my family. But it was never working because instead of rotation, I was applying a lateral backwards shift which created more sheer force and torque (think what happens when you apply a sheer force to a tight rubber band) . So I slowly rotated the ball of the shoulder backwards and my left scapula moved down significantly. All my muscles and tendons relaxed. And the years of pain throughout the thoracic region vanished. I did a little jig right there. Happy days!! I had my wife feel the muscles throughout the region and they were no longer tight like a piano string. Also, I could "feel" the small remaining presence of tension shift down to below the scapula, mid back. Only a small amount. I am over-thrilled that my body " gets it" and I now have a strategy that works to fix my back if I sense it is tight. I have been fighting this back, shoulder, neck pain for over a decade and it worsened a bit after losing 180 lbs. The forward rotation of the shoulders occurred both from the excess weight in front and from bad sitting posture at the computer. The excess weight certainly compounded the forward pull caused by sitting incorrectly to the nth degree. So much so that my neutral posture was very uncomfortable. Now I just need to make this new neutral standing posture automatic so I do not need to think about it when sitting at a computer or when lifting weight in the gym. I found my usual tunnel of pain return after sitting at my work desk last night. So I think I mentally understand correct standing neutral posture now, but need to work on internalizing correct sitting nuetral posture at the office desk. This is what kills me. One "side effect" is my stomach now pushes out a little more. I need to keep it pulled in when holding good posture while standing. I cannot believe that this change in physical rotation around the rotator cuff did not occur to me before. I had been trying to apply sheer forces to push my shoulders back in the past, which did not work. Everyone probably does not realize that there are significant postures that must be relearned after losing a significant amount of weight. Now that the excess weight is gone, there is no need for the upper body to overcompensate in seeking positional balance. Maybe I do not need Physical therapy after all? Thoughts?

I would not get too hung up on lack of daily scale results that come from exercise like running or lifting. It may happen the next day or it may not. The scale is a funny measure of success as it only measures the net affect of how your body works, not the process of anatomical balance that occurs before that. The people who design these scales "get that" most of us want a simple answer, but often times the simple answer is indeed the lowest common denominator for everyone and is not going to be the most optimal feedback. Sometimes it will read a loss when you least expect it and other times not at all. It all goes back to ho your body works. When you exercise, your muscles are eating up the glycogen stores stored in your muscles. Glycogen requires water for processing. So what happens is your body will then convert stored fat or the carbs you have eaten into glycogen. Along with the glycogen build up is water. So a drop in stored water is balanced out with an increase in water and, this is key, heavier muscle. This almost always means the scale goes the wrong way or stays neutral the day after a good cardio like running or a great lifting session. The positive is that the impact of exercise on decreasing fat stores, increasing muscle stores and losing water at the same time is accumulative over time. You will start to see the results on the scale soon, but you need to keep at it in order for the accumulative effect to work in your favor. This may sound an awful lot like bro-science, and it is! This is information I have learned over time and I am communicating it in a friendly non scientific manner that utterly reflects my lack of taking any chemistry, anatomical or biology classes in college or have a career that comes anywhere near this information. However, it does make sense to me and is sound enough to give you and others encouragement that the scale is really not a true measure of immediate success after succinct changes in your lifestyle of eating and exercise habits.

Bacon, bacon, bacon....(like the dog on the bacon treat commercial)

Now you have probably thrown a challenge to my wife ( *slaps head*), as if the lemon pound cake was not enough!! It's still there and I have not cracked and sliced into it! Ha, who has the will of steel now? As for best red velvet cake, I do have to give Cheese Cake Factory kudos there. They make a pretty mean slice of it. http://sweets.seriouseats.com/2011/06/best-cheesecake-at-the-cheesecake-factory-we-eat-entire-menu-slideshow.html Not sure if anyone can relate, but I was totally addicted to the Chris' Outragious Cheese Cake pre sleeve from Cheese Cake Factory. Ate one in the past when they first introduced it. http://sweets.seriouseats.com/2011/06/best-cheesecake-at-the-cheesecake-factory-we-eat-entire-menu-slideshow.html Cheese cake, ghirardelli chocolate brownies,coconut, German chocolate cake frosting...mmm. 1500+ calories per slice. Tons of fat. Sugar unknowable? http://www.fatsecret.com/Diary.aspx?pa=fjrd&rid=1646522 It is the ultimate sin desert for me. However, it was so rich, I sometimes got sugar headaches after eating it. I think that is the mark of a food addict who will eat something even though it leads to discomfort after finishing it. ok, fantasy over...

Did not die on my exercise yesterday evening. Yup, still here. Warmup: +2 mile run + 1200 m row Skill: deadlifts @280 sets of 3 for 10 rounds. Work out: 30 minutes (sets of 15 at a time, rotate); Push-ups (10 regular , 5 hand release): 450 24" Box jumps (rebound style): 310 Sit-ups: 450 Around 20 minutes, the burn from pushups and cardio induced labor breathing from box jumps kicked in. Took a good amount of mental fortitude to keep those box jumps going (jump, darn it, jump). Sit-ups were actually a point to recover between those other two stations. There was about 5 sec recovery time between each min round (finished around 54-56 s per round. Did not get all 45 reps every min due to the box jumps, but still did good. Really good solid week of working out and training. Hit it every day. Feel decent, a little sore today. overall, not bad. Now for a couple days of rest over the weekend. Cheers!