I went in today for a range of tests at FitnessWave I took all three (Hydrostatic Body Fat, Resting Metabolic, and VO2 Sub-Max) tests, but I have to say the Hydrostatic Body Fat (dunk test) was the coolest (and cheapest). I don’t know if you’ve seen this done. Basically, you lie on an underwater scale and expel your lungs of air. By doing this they can tell exactly how much of your weight is fat versus everything else (fat versus lean). I found out that while I have a BMI of 27.3, my actual Body Fat percentage is 22.3% which puts me in the “average” range for men my age. “Good” would be 14-17%, and “excellent” would be <13%. I set my goal at 15%, which for me means I need to lose another 17.3 lbs of fat (if I lose any more muscle I will need to lose more total weight in order to reduce the actual fat %). I am about 201 lbs right now, so that means I need to get down to about 180-184.

According to them, BMI or just weight alone are very crude measurements and not an accurate indicator of how much fat you have on you. I paid for the bundle of tests which was $229, the dunk test by itself is only $60 and takes less than an hour (you do have to wear Speedos though).

Oh, one piece of bad news – I found out I am actually closer to 6’0” rather than 6’1” which means according to BMI I am even fatter than I thought.

hey kartman - i had the test done a few months back, along with a DEXA (bone density) scan...as i have arthritis.

it was GREAT to get a real idea of body % percentage, as that's what i pay more attention to & i wanted a true result ... rather than relying on the dr's scale or that pincer measurement at the gym.

you've done very well!

hey kartman - i had the test done a few months back, along with a DEXA (bone density) scan...as i have arthritis.

it was GREAT to get a real idea of body % percentage, as that's what i pay more attention to & i wanted a true result ... rather than relying on the dr's scale or that pincer measurement at the gym.

you've done very well!

I’m using the BF% test as a baseline. I was lucky enough to lose all of my weight so far without much exercise. Now that the fat has melted away, I am seeing some damn skinny arms and some flabby pecs. I feel the bug now to hit the gym and am planning on working on at least those two areas pretty hard. I’m really curious to see what the BF percentage is relative to lean mass after 3-6 months of regular workouts.

I went in today for a range of tests at FitnessWave I took all three (Hydrostatic Body Fat, Resting Metabolic, and VO2 Sub-Max) tests, but I have to say the Hydrostatic Body Fat (dunk test) was the coolest (and cheapest). I don’t know if you’ve seen this done.

I had this done when I was 9.

I'm planning to have this done in about 20#, when I hit 250#. That should give me a good idea of when I shouldn't be concerned about losing weight anymore. That is, it'll tell me what's "good enough", rather than set myself some unrealistically obsessive-compulsive goal only to discover my body's not interested in losing more.

Keith,

I think I’m on the same page with you. I started this process with the intent of getting to a “Normal” BMI of 24.9 For me that number (which will be @ 184lbs) is only about 12lbs away right now. As I have gotten closer to that goal, I see that I still have some fat around my belly and chest. I look pretty good in clothes now, but I can still see the stuff there in the mirror. At this point I am still losing weight at a comfortable pace and have started a regular workout routine to help build some muscle. I still have my BMI and Body Fat goals, but I think my real goal is just to get down to a nice leveling off point. My best guess at this point is that that will probably be 170-180 lbs which should equate to 23.- 24.4 BMI and about 13-15% Body Fat.

I think I’m on the same page with you.

... Except that I'm completely disregarding BMI. No such goal for me -- I don't trust it.

... Except that I'm completely disregarding BMI. No such goal for me -- I don't trust it.

Fair enough. The Body Fat calculation has had another positive effect, it has gotten me into the gym. Up until taking the dunk test I had lost most of the weight on diet alone with little to no exercise. Now I have this desire to get down to 15% body fat which means I need to lose about 17lbs (since the test) of fat while not losing any muscle, or better yet while gaining some muscle. I’m really eager to hit it hard for the next couple weeks and see what the effect on BF% has been.

As for your earlier comment of setting OCD goals on what your body may or may not be able to do, I felt that way at first too. I did set them, but in the back of my mind I told myself not to be disappointed if I couldn’t make them. I also convinced myself that I’m “big boned” or would look “too skinny” if I got too low or there is “only so much” I can lose. Well to my utter surprise, none of those is true. I’m not in fact big boned, it turns out I have a “normal” skeletal structure for my height. I am only about 12 lbs from that goal and I don’t look too skinny at all, I look pretty good (if I say so myself:blush:). And most importantly, the weight is still coming off at a steady pace.

I was a year in a managed weight loss program not too long before opting for surgery. I was consistently measured (via electrodes -- reasonably accurate if sensitive to hydration levels) to have a lean mass of about 215# (giving me 90# of fat at the time). If the dunk tank is consistent with that measurement (and I don't know how much they'd typically differ -- perhaps greatly), then a 10% body fat target would end up being nearly 240# total (my trainer was targetting me toward 255#). If the actual lean mass is less.. I'll adapt, but I wouldn't expect things to vary by too much. Of course the trick, as you point out, is to lose fat without also losing muscle.

Given my height of 5'10, BMI would still have me overweight.

Keith,

I think I’m on the same page with you. I started this process with the intent of getting to a “Normal” BMI of 24.9 For me that number (which will be @ 184lbs) is only about 12lbs away right now. As I have gotten closer to that goal, I see that I still have some fat around my belly and chest. I look pretty good in clothes now, but I can still see the stuff there in the mirror. At this point I am still losing weight at a comfortable pace and have started a regular workout routine to help build some muscle. I still have my BMI and Body Fat goals, but I think my real goal is just to get down to a nice leveling off point. My best guess at this point is that that will probably be 170-180 lbs which should equate to 23.- 24.4 BMI and about 13-15% Body Fat.

Interesting, you must be close to 6'. I made my first goal of 195, and debating whether or not to try for 24.9. My WLS doctor and family doctor are happy where I am now. I'm still in my first 2 weeks of making that goal, so I am still trying out the situation. I found this thread interesting.

Interesting, you must be close to 6'. I made my first goal of 195, and debating whether or not to try for 24.9. My WLS doctor and family doctor are happy where I am now. I'm still in my first 2 weeks of making that goal, so I am still trying out the situation. I found this thread interesting.

For purposes of determining composition, BMI is going to be misleading. For example, if you have a higher-than-normal amount of muscle in a body about the same size as your neighbor with both normal BMI and composition, your BMI will be higher because muscle is more dense. Conversely, if you replaced all that muscle with fat, your BMI would be lower. BMI is nothing more than a density measurement, and there are healthy high BMI just as there are patently unhealthy normal BMI. You want to be targetting health, I imagine, and health is going to be more directly related to actual body composition.

So my suggestion is as KartMan has done -- get thee to a dunk tank.

Interesting, you must be close to 6'. I made my first goal of 195, and debating whether or not to try for 24.9. My WLS doctor and family doctor are happy where I am now. I'm still in my first 2 weeks of making that goal, so I am still trying out the situation. I found this thread interesting.

Exactly, I am 6’ even. I used to be 6’1”, but that is another story:cursing:. Like Keith has said, BMI is not very accurate at determining anything of real importance. I still track it because like it or not, it is a number that doctors use and the health industry uses. I have researched the Hydrostatic Dunk test quite a bit and have found that it can quite accurately measure Body Fat vs. Lean Mass. It was pretty easy to do (once you get past the feeling that you are being waterboarded) and not terribly expensive ($60 at this place FitnessWave ). I was so inspired by the fact that I am in the “Average 18-24%” range (22.3% to be exact) and that I am still comfortably losing weight that I set my goal to 15% Body Fat. 15% is considered “Fit”, “Ideal” or “Good” depending on whose literature you are looking at.

Update

I went back for a second dunk test this past Friday (8/21/09). It had been about 3 weeks since my first test and I am pretty happy with the results. I went from 201.2 lbs to 194.8 lbs (total loss = 6.4 lbs.) Of that, I lost 2.8 lbs of lean mass and 3.6 lbs of fat mass. I went from 22.3% Body Fat to 21.2% Body Fat. I need to lose another 14.2 lbs of fat mass to get to my ideal of 15% Body Fat. My goal is to get a better ratio of fat loss to lean loss. This is where the gym comes in. I have started hitting the gym regularly and have increased my protein intake in order to build (or not lose) lean mass.

Kartman: I have the resting metabolism and VO2 rate dones last weekend which showed my resting metabolic rate was just 1080 cal. I knew it was going to be low since I lost weight on very limited calories and not much exercise. What is the VO2 rate - do you know? Was your RMR low too?

Kartman: I have the resting metabolism and VO2 rate dones last weekend which showed my resting metabolic rate was just 1080 cal. I knew it was going to be low since I lost weight on very limited calories and not much exercise. What is the VO2 rate - do you know? Was your RMR low too?

My Resting Metabolic Rate was 1829, My Lifestyle & Activity is supposed to allow me another 546 calories. The test showed that my metabolism is 6% lower than “normal”, which may have contributed to my past obesity (but I tend to think it was more likely the massive quantities of food I used to eat:blushing:). Having said that, my own experience with the band has shown that I need to consume less than 1500 calories (before exercise) to lose weight consistently.

My peak VO2 was 36.4 which puts me in the “fair” range. VO2 is a measure of your fitness, a higher VO2 indicates a greater level of fitness and a greater ability to intensely workout, which in turn gives you a better chance to burn calories. For example, Lance Armstrong has a VO2 of 83.8:eek:, superior is in the high 40’s, so he is off the chart. Knowing your VO2 allows you to determine your target heart rate zones for working out. For me, I need my heart rate to be 114-136 for fat burning ((Aerobic) and between 136-174 for cardio (Anaerobic).

I took these tests before starting my workout regimen and plan to do them again in 6 months (except the dunk, which I will do monthly). I am hoping to see an improvement particularly in VO2 after about 6 months of regular workouts.

Edited August 26, 200917 yr by KartMan

Kartman: Thanks for responding. Sounds like you really have it all figured out. However, once you know your RMR, "they" say not to let your calories fall below that number or you'll lose muscle. I noticed that you are eating considerably less than your RMR. I'm eating 100 calories above my RMR and not losing any weight. Do you think it's okay to eat less as long as you are exercising?

Deniseh,

Well, there is the rub isn’t it? I don’t have it all figured out. I think I have a better understanding of it, but it’s a whole lot of new stuff to learn. What you said about losing muscle makes sense, it was just never put to me quite that way. If I look at my last 2 dunk tests, I lost 6.4lbs from the first to the second test. About 55% of that was fat mass loss and the other 45% was lean mass. Obviously, it is my best interest to try to lose less lean mass. My trainer and the RMR Administrator both said that I would need to add in calories and protein now that I am working out. They both are of the school of thought that I should be getting 1 gram of protein for every pound of lean mass. For me, that works out to about 150g of protein per day:eek:! I am still struggling to do that while not taking in too many calories. I find salmon to be a great source, but I can only handle so much of that. I have been supplementing with Muscle Milk Light or Protein Shots, both are only 100 calories and available by the case at Costco. I find them both to be a little on the sweet side, but not as gross as some of the stuff out there. I honestly don’t know if it is ok to eat less than RMR, but I know that when I eat over 1500 calories (which is below my RMR) I don’t lose weight. I have also started to take Glutamine, which is supposed to aid in protein synthesis. It is thought to help prevent the muscle from being catabolized (eaten up) during rigorous exercise.