I'm not one to judge others without knowing them/all the facts, but this one burned me!!! I watched the announcements of the Octuplets being born, and thought; well it must have happened due to follicle stimulation because no Dr. would do invitro with 8 or more embryos. Yesterday I watched as the experts gave their opinions with the same conclusion I came to. There was no way any of them would have done invitro with that many eggs and they would turn someone away who wanted that, so they also felt it must have been egg stimulation that caused this.

Now this morning I learn that the mother, who is currently living at home with her mother, already has six children (we know nothing about the father)!!!! And here's the kicker...it WAS invitro!!!! Holy Cow!!! I get that there are crazy people out there, so I'm writing the mom off as nuts, but what the heck happened to regulating and having rules about ethics for this for the Drs.??!! What's next...cloning? Know that I have family members and friends that have been helped by fertility specialists, so I know the benefit in using one, but this guy crossed the line. Just MO.

patty, she was married for like 7 years and was unable to have children during that time. I believe she said that's why she got divorced, because she became obsessed with having children. And do you really think she can finish college with 14 kids?

i would just like to thank the creative team behind the blackberry storm, for the technology which allows me to read LBT on the treadmill & those posting here this AM for good reading...i walked a bit longer!:biggrin:

listen - i'll be the first in line to give this woman a break when she agrees to have herself spayed. until then, she gets what she gets.

And I think that because you don't know how it really is to have a large family, you judge her and think she will be stressed.

I couldn't care LESS how stressed she is. I hope she never gets another wink of sleep ever again for the next 18 years for what she's done.

It's about the COST, Patty, the COST to the TAXPAYERS that was unconscionably foisted on them by a deliberate act of selfishness and abuse.

We all have sooo much to say about the wrongs of others, but we can't even see our own wrongs at times.

MY wrongs never hurt, affected, or cost anybody but myself. The fact that you can't see the difference tells me that you have a logic chip missing somewhere.

Yeah, you would think. Hmmm.

I don't know that you actually DID. No apologies as I still doubt that you did.

You have a serious problem with name calling. These are just a sample of your immaturity....selfish, insane, cuckoo bird, freakazoid, nuts, delusional.... You know what they say about people who continually resort to name calling? They lack self confidence, and feel the need to berate others with names to lift themselves higher.

But to me, it only makes you look pitiful.

Just a little information about me: I can't say that I have never told a lie, but I can say that I make it my policy to be very truthful when I speak. I am very consious of lying and I disrespect lying from other people. Therefore, when I tell you that I repaid my assistance, I did. But I could care less if you believe me or not.

patty, she was married for like 7 years and was unable to have children during that time. I believe she said that's why she got divorced, because she became obsessed with having children. And do you really think she can finish college with 14 kids?

I finished college with 10, so why not.

MY wrongs never hurt, affected, or cost anybody but myself. The fact that you can't see the difference tells me that you have a logic chip missing somewhere.

Oh really? Your wrong doings in your life NEVER affected anyone but you? I think you're the one missing the chip.

You have a serious problem with name calling. These are just a sample of your immaturity....selfish, insane, cuckoo bird, freakazoid, nuts, delusional.....

Because she IS all of these things. And more. I'm just trying to be PG here. :biggrin:

patty, weren't you also married and had the help of your husband? She doesn't even have that. She seems to have no one to help her.

Oh really? Your wrong doings in your life NEVER affected anyone but you? I think you're the one missing the chip.

Down, there, "nice christian." :biggrin:

patty, weren't you also married and had the help of your husband? She doesn't even have that. She seems to have no one to help her.

Carrie, there's no reasoning with the unreasonable. And every thread she's on gets overrun by and made about her.

I finished college with 10, so why not.

patty do you mind me asking the ages of your kids? and did you require/need the assistance of the older children with the younger ones? if prying just say so.

i ask, because i think it's unfair (duggers included in this mix) to ask children to help in the raising of other children....i'm not even concerned if they "love" it - it's not fair, a kid gets one chance at being a kid...this of course is MO.

my mom wanted MANY more kids than she had - but realized she wanted special time w/each. i tease my eldest brother who i say has his hands full with just 5 and who could afford to have another 5 and would LIKE another 5, however his wife is in her suburban as is from 630am - 8pm at night. none of them have special needs - but are each involved in one sport & one music class yr round. they like being busy w/kids - they are fine of sacrifices of a nicer home, nicer car, and vacations on my ranch vs the riveria.

i'm concerned that the with that many kids & lack of resouces (not money - but help) her children WILL suffer, not if - WILL. all her love, and i have no doubt she loves them - will be able to nuture these children properly.....and no dad in the picture creates an even greater hardship.

patty, weren't you also married and had the help of your husband? She doesn't even have that. She seems to have no one to help her.

Yes, I was married. She has the help of her parents. Even though they are not happy about it, (and have every right to be upset about it) they will help her.

I finished college with 10, so why not.

Were 8 of your 10 infants all at the same time, the same age?

Let's say she does find daycare for those 8 kids all day, and the twins all day, and the others after school. That will be in the neighborhood of say 3 grand a month with family discounts if it is at all similar to rates here in NM. A single child in full time day care is $400.00 a month. She will have 10 in full time, and 4 part time. So that is well over a thousand a month discount.

She is in school all day, away from the kids. Then when she comes home, at say 5 PM---there is dinner to cook for 15. And don't forget, the infants cannot feed themselves yet. So that eats up a couple of hours. So it is now at least 7 PM, and you have 15 people needing baths to get ready for bed. Once again, the infants cannot bathe themselves yet....for that matter most of the kids in the ages she has them, need help shampooing their hair, combing out the tangles etc. And there is not enough of an age range for the older ones to help with the younger ones....so it is up to her. Time to lather on lotion and cuddle and bond with each of them? When?

So if you have an assembly line in baths, and figure 10 minutes a piece, then you have spent over 2 hours on baths. And good luck getting a 6 year old in and out in 10 minutes!

So it is now after 9

Don't forget laundry is having to be done. Dinner dishes done. Floors vaccuumed--there are afterall a LOT of kids on that floor. BUT....most of them cannot be bathing alone! So nothing but baths are getting done during that time. All the other household chores must wait until after bed time.

Now it is 9 and you are putting 14 kids to bed. Infants do not usually just get laid in their cribs and drift off. How do you rock 8 babies? Read to 6 other kids? Get countless drinks of water?

Ok, it is somewhere around 10, and she is trying to study between crying babies, changing loads of laundry, paying bills, ordering some clothes for the kids online, because how do you take that many kids shopping? Dishwasher is finished, time to put them away, and prepare things for the next morning, because you have to get up at 5 to get showered and ready for school, then wake up 14 kids, change minimally 8 diapers, and feed them all breakfast, and get them all dressed, faces clean, hair and teeth brushed and to school or daycare.....then get to school herself.....with none of her homework or studying done, there was not time. When school lets out, she might have a few minutes to study before having to pick up all the kids, but nope, she has to hit the grocery store! And has to go get the 4 year old for a speech class, and take the oldest to the dentist. Just as examples, there is a steady array of errands for an average family on an average day, and NOTHING about this is average.

Then it starts all over.

You have repeated her saying she will give 100% of herself to her kids......

WHEN does she give 100% to any of them? She may (and I stress the MAY) be giving 100% ---but no one, is getting 100%. Those are innocent children who deserve time with someone who loves them. To have diapers changed regularly, and cuddle time with feedings, not a propped up bottle, stories read, and just time to rock on their lap, or to listen when they tell stories, to build blocks with, or play dolls with. They all need a Mommy--and there is simply not enough Mommy to go around.

In your case, and in the Duggars case, there are/were older kids and younger kids, and husbands to help out. She made this decision -- even if it was to only have one more already knowing she was not providing for her existing children on her own. That SHOWS she is not mentally stable enough to do this with 8--------let alone 14. The things she says ---- planning to raise a family on student loans? That is not feasible! Nor in my opinion should it be legal--------there are lots of people out there that want to use that money to actually go to school, and people like this make it impossible.

If she had said she plans to prostitute herself and her children out to the tabloids to support herself.....THEN she would be looking at things honestly!

More power to her! I personally believe this is why she did it in the first place. That and state $$$$$. Disability payments on a child with a speech delay? Wonder how many hours she spent obtaining that??? I have a grandson with a speech delay---they receive no money, she spends hours with him and they TALK--he is almost 3 now and catching up...slowly but surely. WITHOUT government money----instead a parents time and love.

At least if she wrote a book or sold her story to People or whoever then SHE would be supporting them not the taxpayers--who had zero to say about her CHOOSING to have multiple kids.

This is a scenario that simply does not work. Yes she says she is going to have help from family and friends. And she currently has compassionate moms bringing breast milk to her babies----but that is not doing it on her own, as she repeatedly states she will do.

Sure some friends and family might help----for the kids, but for how long are they going to be able to disrupt their own average size families to help out someone who made a selfish decision? Then what? Pay someone to help? She cannot make enough money working to do that. She is going to HAVE to sell her story, but so be it--------let her! Let her support herself. And those like you, who feel she is deserving can send her $$$. Personally, I hope CPS camps on her doorstep to assure that those babies are watched and cared for properly, and by babies I mean all 14 of them.

I have not called her names---though several come to mind!!! Selfish is not a name it is a condition, and one she suffers from tremendously!

Kat

patty do you mind me asking the ages of your kids? and did you require/need the assistance of the older children with the younger ones? if prying just say so.My children are 27,24,23,22,21,19,18,17,15 &13. The 24,22 & 21 year olds I didn't deliver myself, just raised. I can remember having 5 children all under the age of 6 at one time. My 2 oldest helped out with the younger ones sometimes, but I was a stay at home mom, who worked out of the home,and never needed day care. I rarely left my oldest with them so I could go out. I used to have a reg. babysitter that I used when we wanted to go out. I believed they were my responsibility to care for them and so I did.

i ask, because i think it's unfair (duggers included in this mix) to ask children to help in the raising of other children....i'm not even concerned if they "love" it - it's not fair, a kid gets one chance at being a kid...this of course is MO.Having to take part in the every day things in a family like caring for a younger sibling or doing chores or even paying room and board when you turn 18 is a great thing for all children to be a part of. It fosters family loyalty, responsibility, and love. While raising 10 children, none of my other children 'raised' any of the others. We all helped one another with everything around here and noone felt it was unfair. When you have that many people in a home, you teach them how to fend for themselves when it comes to most things, like washing laundry. My kids were 5 years old when they learned how to use the machine and even younger when they learned how to clean up a spill. In a family of just 3 or 4 say, mom would usually do everything herself. This is ok, too.

my mom wanted MANY more kids than she had - but realized she wanted special time w/each. i tease my eldest brother who i say has his hands full with just 5 and who could afford to have another 5 and would LIKE another 5, however his wife is in her suburban as is from 630am - 8pm at night. none of them have special needs - but are each involved in one sport & one music class yr round. they like being busy w/kids - they are fine of sacrifices of a nicer home, nicer car, and vacations on my ranch vs the riveria.

i'm concerned that the with that many kids & lack of resouces (not money - but help) her children WILL suffer, not if - WILL. all her love, and i have no doubt she loves them - will be able to nuture these children properly.....and no dad in the picture creates an even greater hardship.

They may 'suffer' as you say for the first 2 years of the octuplets life because mom will need to give all her time to the infants (at least the first year), but they will begin to love their new siblings just like they love their 5 other siblings and I hope they grow to be a happy family. I agree with you that not having a dad in the picture is the worse of it all. (here you can see where if mankind would follow God's laws for marriage and family how there wouldn't be any problems)