If one doctor offers a lower "self-pay rate" than another doctor, does that mean that if you DO use insurance, and insurance only covers partially, then the cheaper self-pay doctor will have more leftover that you have to pay?

I guess what my question is is this; Do surgeon's charge the same if you are doing self pay or using your insurance?

I am just amazed how complicated they make this whole process.

No, it's a different price. My doc charges self pay 15k for everything, even fills for a full year.. yet charged my insurance like 40k or so.. and I have to pay my deductable for fills. But, according to my insurance there is a lower price that they agree on. It's weird..

It can be entirely different based on the doctor/insurance etc. There is no way to know how to compare without finding out their specific rates, portions due to the patient, etc.