Oh me oh my - why no restriction??

odanielle · June 28, 2010

HI all -- I am worried! So I am one month post-sleeve revision (from the band) and today was my first "food" day. Being the contrarian type, I decided to "test" the waters, as it were, by eating "more than I should"....but I am not feeling restriction!!

Here's what I had: Believe me, this will not be a habit, and I've asked hubby to throw away all tempting food items. I started with chicken - about 1.5 oz....went down great - in fact, in my 3 years banded, I was never able to get chicken down. So I was glad. BUt I still felt "hollow" so I went on...had some cherries. WOrked out great. Then had some of my son's salad (with croutons and cherry tomatoes). Still great, a bit hollow.

Then, I lost it! I was feeling so "good" -- and worried about it (why can I eat so much!!) that I had a granola bar, graham crackers, little PB cups and mini chocolates my poor son brought back from a birthday party -- and still, not FULL!! I know I'm not "supposed" to eat this stuff, but I thought I'd get restructoin (you know, the negative reinforcement??)

WHAT GIVES??? Is this supposed to happen?? It's also my 2nd day of monthlies, and while on band, the monthlies usually triggered total openness and ability to eat (except for chicken). But I Thought the sleeve operated differently?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts! I'm really worried....

Danielle

Tiffykins · June 28, 2010

All that extra stuff you ate is essentially slider foods. It goes in, and slides right on through. Our stomachs don't have squeeze the food like chocolates, lettuce, cherries/strawberries/bananas, crackers, granola like it does meat, or dense foods. That 1.5 ounces of chicken isn't going to last that long if you're putting stuff on top of it that is slick, and can go right through.

The sleeve only does so much, we have to do the rest. Sometimes restriction with the sleeve does vary. I find when the humidity here is super high, my sleeve is tighter. I'm not sure how long it took you to eat all of that, but if you stretched it out over more than 20-30 minutes, by my guidelines, that is called grazing, and you're not going to get "satisfied" when you keep snacking a little pieces here and there.

lmmore · June 28, 2010

Follow the rules or you will ruin this opportunity to get your life back. You are not supposed to eat raw veggies for 4 months, let alone all that other stuff. Eat Protein, cooked veggies, and then low carbs. get in your protein, and drink lots of Water. Period.

Edited June 28, 2010 by lmmore

odanielle · June 28, 2010

I know what I'm supposed to do. I was just shocked by what I could do. If it were as "easy" as staying away from foods that aren't good for me, I would have done that without having the sleeve. I ate all of it pretty quickly -- again, being the contrarian, I just wanted to test out the sleeve's limits. NEver felt close to full!

By the way, I moved from the band to the sleeve when I was already near normal BMI. Am now normal BMI and I'm trying to figure out how this works. Still want to lose some (10-15lbs eventually) but not in a huge hurry.

Thanks, Danielle

odanielle · June 28, 2010

Thanks--- I will try to be more "compliant" -- I never had the band unfilled (except day before surgery) so have had 3 years of hardship then this surgery - just wanted to test limits. Am sobered by the fact that I can actually eat more with the sleeve in one sitting than with the band, even on its loosest days! Still prefer this since it seems less capricious, but man, I do wish I had more tightness like others!

lmmore · June 28, 2010

Thanks--- I will try to be more "compliant" -- I never had the band unfilled (except day before surgery) so have had 3 years of hardship then this surgery - just wanted to test limits. Am sobered by the fact that I can actually eat more with the sleeve in one sitting than with the band, even on its loosest days! Still prefer this since it seems less capricious, but man, I do wish I had more tightness like others!

I know I sounded harsh, but i really don't want you to ruin your new stomach. Cherries, I mean really. Cherries? I couldn't digest thoughs very well, before I lost 80% of my stomach. It sounds like you don't have much to lose. If you take a PPI then you shouldn't be hungry. Tiff was right, you were grazing, but it sounds like you have no intention of doing that regularly, so best of luck.

Tiffykins · June 28, 2010

I know what I'm supposed to do. I was just shocked by what I could do. If it were as "easy" as staying away from foods that aren't good for me, I would have done that without having the sleeve. I ate all of it pretty quickly -- again, being the contrarian, I just wanted to test out the sleeve's limits. NEver felt close to full!

By the way, I moved from the band to the sleeve when I was already near normal BMI. Am now normal BMI and I'm trying to figure out how this works. Still want to lose some (10-15lbs eventually) but not in a huge hurry.

Thanks, Danielle

I realize it's not easy. I'm in maintenance, and a band to sleeve revision patient as well. It's really a slippery slope because some days I can eat a lot more than others. Some days those little food demons are still there, but if I want to use the sleeve, and continue to see success, then I have to make the right choices. You'll feel restriction when you eat more of the dense Protein as prescribed. I wasn't scolding you, but explaining why you didn't get restriction with the food choices you made.

I never get full on stuff like mashed potatoes, or Pasta, heck Pringles slide right down without issue. I never feel satiety with sliders foods. I just know that I don't need to eat those things, or overindulge on those foods. The only way I would feel full is if I slammed down an entire cup of mashed potatoes in less than 15 minutes, and even then I'm pretty sure the full feeling would not last long. You asked for our thoughts, if this is normal, is this supposed to be happening, etc, and stated that you were worried because of the lack of restriction. I was simply explaining "why" it happened. It's just like the band essentially. If you eat sliders, no satiety. If you choose more dense Proteins, you'll get a better gauge of how it all works.

odanielle · June 28, 2010

Okay, I wrote this friendly happy email, and it got lost in cyberspace :crying:

HEre's what it said in a nutshell -- I hope my mail didn't come across as mad at posters! I am grateful, really, just mad at myself -- and to some extent "wishing" I had the restriction of others! But you know, I'll take this over the band -- and definitely over having nothing! I just have to know what to keep away from. The silver lining, as I told my long suffering husband, is that if/when I want to "eat", I know I can! As long as it doesn't become a habit....

Thanks again - really, you're very helpful!!

Danielle

educationrulz · June 30, 2010

How do you do with a good quantity/variety of dense Proteins in one sitting? Any restriction there?

odanielle · June 30, 2010

Not really -- I tried a burger yesterday, and made it all the way to at least 4 oz without restriction. I don't want to push it -- i think I could have eaten more...

I'm feeling kinda bummed - didn't realize how many things are considered "slider" foods? All carbs are sliders? I haven't tried bread, Bagels, etc. but I heard those are considered sliders too? :scared0:

Thanks for asking...

Danielle

Tiffykins · June 30, 2010

Your swelling may not have been as severe as some of others. If you chewed up the burger really well, it could have just been mush and getting those 4oz in probably isn't a huge issue. I can get in more if I chew, chew, chew, I just choose to eat normally so I can only fit in a limited amount. Chili was considered a mushy/soft food for my guidelines. I could eat 4oz easily because the meat is not as dense as a chicken breast, or steak. chicken salad/tuna salad all worked great. I could eat a good solid 3-4oz of it if I made it really moist.

Do you know what size bougie your surgeon used on you? Also, try to remember that your stomach nerves have been cut, and may take some time to heal as well. You may not get a full signal. I didn't get a full signal for months, and that's why I was so strict on measuring portions. When I didn't measure, I'd take that one last bite, and that one bite creeped back up. Puking with a new sleeve is not only not fun, but it's dangerous. So, just use caution that you don't push the limits by testing your restriction this early out. Your staple line is still healing, and since you aren't getting a full signal use caution and common sense when eating.

Yes, most carbs are sliders. That's why the rule of eating Protein first is essential. For me, certain breads are sliders. English muffins, bagel thins, the inside of a yeast dinner roll, grilled sourdough (like with grilled cheeses), are all bready type stuff that fit great in my sleeve. Entire Bagels do not work well with me. Those bagel thin sandwich thingies are great because they aren't as dense as real bagels, but I can only eat 1/2 of one of them. I can only eat 1 slice of bread. I eat 1/2 sandwich with 1-2 slices of deli meat, or pb &j. Those foods don't slide right through, but I can eat them when a lot of sleevesters can not eat them comfortably. chips, pretzels, crackers, are all definitely sliders. I can eat a lot of them and never get a full signal. Biscuits, pancakes, waffles, toaster strudels do not work for me. They all hit my sleeve like a brick. Same goes for scrambled eggs, and pork chops. Technically, I can eat all of those foods, but they don't "feel" good in my sleeve. Even at a year out, scrambled eggs hit my sleeve, and I feel like I've eaten a 4 course meal with just a few bites. Luckily, I don't like eggs, or porkchops, and don't miss them at all.

It's really tough to stay disciplined, but I really don't want to pick up bad habits after working so hard to kick them. Don't get me wrong, I am by no means eating per the "sleeve rules". A lot of people on OH scold me because I do not deprive myself of foods. I refuse to never eat mashed potatoes again. But, I do have to keep everything in moderation. I have to remember that I did this to maintain a healthy weight, healthy lifestyle, and relationship with food. I'm in maintenance, and I've struggled with not losing anymore weight. If I were to follow the sleeve rules, I'd continue to lose. I eat 1500-1800 calories a day with 100 gr of Protein, 80-100 carbs, this is the only way I can maintain my current weight.

The sleeve really is a great tool, but it would be super easy to gain weight. I can eat twice as much as I could 2-3 months post op. If I chose to eat high calorie, sliders every meal, every day, I'd gain weight. I just have to keep my head out of the fridge and pantry. Sometimes my head wins, but it's nice to be satisfied with a few chips/crackers/pretzels instead of the entire bag. For me, the sleeve is more forgiving than the band. I can eat just about anything with the sleeve, but with the band, a lot my favorites didn't work so that kept me away from the "no no" foods.

You'll get it all figured out. It takes time, and eating on a schedule, measuring foods, tracking calories/carbs/protein really do help keep me on track.

odanielle · June 30, 2010

What a great post - thanks so much! I guess I never realized how much I was relying on my band to keep me out of trouble! Here it's back to the old will power, and I"m not so good with that! Honestly, if I could have stuck to eating Proteins and veggies first before the sleeve, I wouldn't be here in the first place.... but c'est la vie, and I need to accept this tool for what it is and isn't - and consider myself lucky that I have relatively low restriction, as opposed to too much.

The bougie size was 36 -- I had Dr. Aceves and I believe it's pretty standard. He does the folding over the staple line which is why I believe he doesn't do 32.

You're probably right on the money about the meat! I was rarely able to eat meat on the band so I was extra careful and chewed until it was total mush.

Very interesting about the stomach nerves being cut....I didn't know that, so it makes sense. My whole stomach area is still completely numb to the touch as well.. feels weird. I'm lucky (touch wood) that I've not slimed, foamed or vomitted at all since this surgery, and I'd like to keep it that way as much as possible.

I am good with days - but as usual, nights are my challenge...and at the moment, graham crackers are my latest drug of choice. I don't eat many (2) but I think I should just stay away from any non-nutrional carbs until I reach my goal. So anything carbs is being given away, slowly but surely -- soon my 9-year old will have a "Sleeve" diet to contend with, poor guy!

Thanks again -- really helpful!!

Danielle

educationrulz · July 1, 2010

Hmmm Tiff,

A fried pork chop with some eggs scrambled with cheese sounds great to me! I'm glad you mentioned chili as a mushi because I hadn't even thought of that. Gotta add some things to my menu...

Danielle,

I think you will hit your stride soon and be better able to tell what works for you. However, it wouldn't hurt to contact your surgeon and review this with them. You have a highly respected surgeon and from what I've heard, they would be responsive to helping you find out what the problem is. With all sincerity (an no judgement), I think you should stop experimenting with how much your sleeve can hold and see if you need some follow up care or testing. Maybe an Upper GI or EGD would determine if something is not right. I know it's not usually feasible to go to Mexico for this kind of stuff but maybe you could find a way to get it done here. Or, maybe they will simply agree with what Tiff has said and give you some nutritional support. Definitely bring your doctor in on this...

Bornagainbabe · July 1, 2010

Thanks Tiff, I found all that really interesting as well! I think I was about 7/8 months out before I could tolerate bread, Pasta etc. and even now there are still some random foods that one day I can manage quite well and other days not much at all. I can eat anything now but haven't identified what fills me more than something else yet as my tolerance is still erratic.

odanielle · July 1, 2010

Thanks -- yes, I have tried my physician through his assistant -- so far, she's focused on my nutrition and compliance, but not on my bigger worry that I feel I can tolerate too much! So I'll keep pushing....

The "good" news -- I ate 1 turkey meatball (big one) yesterday that was so good, I had to try another one -- but I knew after a bite that I'd be way overfilled if I tried -- so I stopped, and then realized what Tiff was saying -- my belly felt uncomfortably full. FINALLY!! So now I know my limits and what to stay away from....