(Bambam, I hope you don't mind my moving this but I think it's really important that your thoughts get a thread of their own. You'll get a lot more feedback if this is not buried in a thread about meat. :confused: )

Bambam said in another thread:

I was banded in July and initially lost 40 lbs in the first 3 months. This was mainly due to me eating liquids and soft foods. I was also afraid to eat much because of fear of slippage. Once I got past that fear and started eating solids my weight loss stopped. I was able to eat way too much. Now I've had two fills. My appetite is still strong and since my initial loss, I have gained twenty back, and now am standing at a total of 19 lbs lost in seven months. I am very distraught. My doctor tells me to eat less. eat lower fat foods, and excercise more. I haven't had a lot of success with this advice in the past. This is why I spent nearly $20,000 of my own money for this surgery. Needless to say, I feel like I wasted my money. The ONLY discourgement I have from overeating is when food gets stuck in my band.

This must be extremely frustrating for you and I'm so glad you came here to share it! Being told to eat less and exercise more is about the LEAST helpful thing any of us can hear. Like, DUH!!

What I find most instructive in your comments is your last sentence. Do you not feel any sense of fullness, ever? Getting stuck is a result of eating something that's too large, but what about food that is chewed well? How much of, say, an average sandwich can you eat, and how fast? If you can eat the whole thing, bread and all, in roughly the same amount of time you could pre-band, you are definitely not restricted. The fact that you've had two adjustments is meaningless if those adjustments were insufficient.

Please give us more information specifically about what you're eating, how much, and how your band reacts and we may be able to help you pin down what the problem is.

Hi Bambam. dont feel discouraged. At least try getting another fill, sometimes it takes 4 or 5 fills before you start feeling the restriction.

The band isn't a miracle cure, its a tool for us to use to loose weight.

Wish you all the best!

Hi Bam Bam -

I still consider my appetite to be "strong", but it is satisfied on much less food, for a much longer time. But when I AM hungry, the strength of that hunger feels the same to me.

Please follow Alexandra's advice, and let us know a little more specifically about how much you can eat, how often, what you are eating, what gets stuck and when, etc. How often are you PBing, if at all?

It does sound as though your fill is not quite tight enough, if indeed you are eating too much and are ravenous. At the correct fill level this does not happen, honest.

Tell us more!

The only restriction I am experiencing is when food gets stuck. I obviously don't have enough saline. Almost any food with the exception of steak or chicken breast goes through without any restriction. I can eat a very large plate of spaghetti. A large hoagie type sub, pizza for days. Two bites of chicken breast and my chest explodes!! haha.

I think I'm up to 2.0 or 2.5 on my band after 2 fills. BTW, How much are you all paying for fills?

Thank you all for your support, I am calling about another fill ASAP. I have to fly to Dallas to get them. (300 miles)

Are you saying that once you got your fill to the right level that it is actually physically difficult to eat larger quantities???

Bam

The only restriction I am experiencing is when food gets stuck. I obviously don't have enough saline. Almost any food with the exception of steak or chicken breast goes through without any restriction. I can eat a very large plate of spaghetti. A large hoagie type sub, pizza for days. Two bites of chicken breast and my chest explodes!! haha.

This definitely sounds like you don't have enough restriction. I couldn't eat a large hoagie sub if my life depended on it!

I think I'm up to 2.0 or 2.5 on my band after 2 fills. BTW, How much are you all paying for fills?

The actual amount in your band is irrelevant. But it sounds to me like your doctor is taking the "sneaking up" approach on your fills. Are you tested for restriction at the time of the fill? Did you have a period where you could feel the restriction right after the fill?

I'm not answering about the fill cost, because my insurance is covering mine. I do know that those with fluoro cost a lot more than those without. How does your doctor do them?

Are you saying that once you got your fill to the right level that it is actually physically difficult to eat larger quantities???

YES!!! That is precisely the point. If I go past a certain point with food I absolutely MUST stop or risk serious pain. There's a point BEFORE that where I know I've had enough--stopping there is what I'm trying to learn how to do consistently.

Alexandra is 100% right. You definitely need a fill. The band isn't any help without a proper fill...so it's actually good that you've been able to keep off 19 pounds without any help from the band! :confused:

Once you're filled to the right level, you'll probably be eating less than half of the portions you're eating now.

The advice on this webpage may help you decide when you've had enough fill:

http://www.lapbandtransformation.com/Adjustments.htm

When you have good restriction and your pouch is totally full, you'll definitely know it. A lot of people describe it as feeling like a golfball is sitting in their chest. After a while, you learn how much to eat to be comfortably full and avoid that "golfball" sensation.

My fills are also covered by insurance, but the cost without is something like $160. That's without fluoro. Cost seems to vary a lot.

The following things are what is most dissappointing to me. I've been told these things all of my life and I have not proven to be very consistent on always eating right, or excercising enough. I really thought this surgery would dramatically help.

I WOULD NOT BE OVERWEIGHT IF I COULD FOLLOW THESE GUIDELINES.

I COULD LOSE WEIGHT WITHOUT LAPBAND BY "EATING RIGHT" AND EXCERCISING REGULARLY

BAM

A. You may need an eating adjustment

1. Are you eating 60 grams of Protein a day

2. Are you eating 25 grams of Fiber

3. Are you avoiding all liquid calories

a. Soup can be sign of “soft calorie syndrome”

b. Alcohol contains a lot of calories – 7 calories per gram

(1) It’s also a stomach irritant

c. fruit juice is just sugar Water

4. Are you making healthy food choices from a wide variety of

foods?

a. Are you avoiding soft foods

b. You can’t just eat what’s easy

c. cheese is glorified fat

5. Are you drinking 6-8 glasses of water a day between meals

6. Are you eating too much junk

a. chips, chocolate, nuts, ice cream, Cookies and other highly

processed junk foods are too calorically dense to be regular parts of a

healthy diet. But don’t avoid them completely to the point where you

feel deprived.

b. Stay out of fast food places

7. Are you getting in two servings of Calcium daily

8. Do you always eat the protein first

9. Then the vegetables or fruits

a. Five servings a day

b. Potatoes are NOT a vegetable

10. Is your portion size appropriate?

a. meat or fish

(1) 3 ounces – the size of a deck of cards

b. Vegetables

(1) ½ cup – the size of your fist

c. Starch

(1) If you eat the protein and the vegetables first you don’t need

much

(2) Avoid: rice, potatoes, Pasta

11. You might try avoiding artificial sweeteners

a. Some people think that artificial sweeteners stimulate the

appetite

b. They are HUNDREDS of times sweeter than sugar

c. They teach you to like things too sweet

d. There is no evidence that people who use them are any thinner

than people who don’t

12. Avoid most diet foods

a. Real food usually tastes better

b. Real food is more satisfying than low calorie substitutes

c. When you are only eating a tiny bit the caloric savings is not

that great

(1) Use a teaspoon of real butter instead of a tablespoon of diet

margarine

(2) The body has no way to break down artificial fats

a. They may go into permanent storage

b. Some people think liposuction is the only way to remove

hydrolyzed fats from the body

B. You may need a behavior adjustment

1. Are you eating only when you are hungry?

a. If you’re not sure drink 8 ounces of water and wait.

2. Are you eating three meals a day?

a. With maybe 1 or 2 small Snacks

3. Are you sitting down to eat?

4. Are you eating consciously?

a. No distractions, turn off the TV, put the book or newspaper

away, pay attention to your food and your companions

5. Are you eating slowly?

a. Put the fork down between bites

b. Take 20 to 30 minutes to finish a meal

c. Taking longer might cause the pouch to begin emptying

6. Are you taking small bites?

a. Tiny spoon, chopsticks, cocktail fork

7. Are you chewing well?

8. Are you drinking with your meals or too soon after your meals?

a. Practice water loading between meals

b. You won’t be thirsty if you are well hydrated before the meal

9. Are you stopping at the first sign of fullness?

a. Sometimes it’s a whisper: not hungry, had enough

b. Hard stop versus soft stop

10. Do not eat between meals. Stop grazing.

11. Do not eat when you are not hungry

C. You may need an activity adjustment

1. Are you getting in 30 minutes of physical activity at least 3

times a week?

a. Over and above what you would do in the usual course of your day

b. Could you make it 4 or 5 times a week?

c. Could you make it 45 or 60 minutes?

2. Are you taking advantage of opportunities to increase your

physical activity?

a. Taking the stairs instead of the elevators or escalators

b. Walking on the escalators instead of riding

c. Parking your car further away from the entrance

d. Getting out of the car instead of using the drive through

e. Getting off the bus one stop before your destination

f. Washing you car by hand instead of the car wash

g. Playing with your kids

D. You may need an attitude adjustment

1. Are you committed to your weight loss journey?

2. Are you totally honest with yourself about how much you are

eating and exercising?

a. Log your food and activity on ww.fitday.com for 3 days

3. Are you using food inappropriately to deal with emotional

issues?

a. Have you identified what the emotions are that drive your

eating?

b. Can you think of more appropriate ways to deal with those

emotions?

c. Are you willing to seek help from a qualified counselor?

4. Are you attending and participating in support group meetings?

5. Have you drummed up some support from your family and friends?

6. Have you dealt with saboteurs realistically?

7. Do you have realistic expectations about the weight loss

journey?

8. Are you still obsessing about food, weight, dieting, eating?

a. Obsessive – compulsive thoughts

(1) Obsess about something else

b. Perfectionism

(1) All or none, black and white thinking

c. Patience with the pace of healthy weight loss

9. Are you acknowledging your successes with non-food rewards?

10. Have you learned how to take a compliment?

11. Are you giving up diet mentality?

a. Stop weighing yourself several times a day or every day

b. Stop dieting

c. Stop depriving yourself

d. Stop defining food as “good” and “bad”

e. Stop rewarding and punishing yourself with food

12. How do you feel about all the changes taking place?

Bambam, I know exactly where you're coming from. Those guidelines and suggestions are there for when we feel we can incorporate them into our lives--they're not anything you haven't heard before. Without restriction you are exactly where you were pre-surgery, and you are correct, it's no help being told what you "should" be doing.

I really thought this surgery would dramatically help.

It can't help at all unless you have proper restriction. Once that restriction is there you will have to watch what you eat and how you eat it, but IT WILL BE DRAMATICALLY EASIER to do that.

I promise. You'll be amazed at the difference good restriction will make.

I can eat a very large plate of spaghetti. A large hoagie type sub, pizza for days. Two bites of chicken breast and my chest explodes!!

Hi Bam -

It sounds to me like your band is already working - if you have problems eating chicken breast and steak, only two bites(!!) then you should be trying to eat more of those things that you DO have restriction on. You also may not be chewing them as much as required to avoid that pain.

I do understand your frustration, and I'm not saying that maybe you don't need a fill, BUT... Regardless of how tight you are, if you resort to eating things that DON'T give you that "chest explodes" feeling, eventually you're going to end up on nothing but milkshakes.

The band is only a tool - I'm sure you've heard that before. You have to make some conscious choices about what you eat. Good solid Protein, then veggies, then whatever you have room for afterwards.

The band can NOT do everything for you - and if you expect it to, you will fail and also have problems. You have to do your part - if, of course, you really DO want to lose weight and become more healthy. If you know you can eat a full plate of spaghetti, order the chicken breast instead. Most of the time. You don't have to be perfect, you don't have to diet - but choose the best options 70+% of the time.

The band cannot make your choices for you. Eventually you are going to have to be resigned to eating less - whether it is less chicken, less hoagies, or less spaghetti. You can choose to continue eating great volumes of what goes down easiest, or you can choose to learn to eat less and use the foods that work best for your weight loss journey.

It is NOT easy. A properly adjusted band does make all the difference when you are trying to be mindful of what you eat. I just fear though that you sound as though you did not expect to have to make any changes at all. As you get tighter and tighter, and you get to the point where you can only eat two bites of spaghetti, is that what you're going to have? Just two bites of spaghetti? Or are you going to switch to something else that you can eat a large volume of?

Just food for thought...

Good luck to you, and be careful of becoming too tight. That will cause problems you won't want to deal with.

Thank you all for your support. I will continue to let you know how I'm doing. I wish you all success in your journeys.

Bam

Oops, I'm sorry that I made it sound like those guidelines are necessary right now. I would definitely say wait until AFTER the fill to try to follow them. I couldn't follow those kinds of guidelines either if I had all my fill removed!

I intended to use that site to show what portions and types of food you should be eating AFTER you have some restriction, to decide when you've had enough of a fill. When you're at the right fill level, it's not such a struggle to eat those small portion sizes like it is pre-op or with an empty band.

Bambam I didn't experience any restriction until 2.5ccs. Once you get more saline I think you'll notice a huge difference.

Please don't give up, your journey has just begun!