I can't believe what these cowards who took office to serve the people of WI are doing. Fleeing the state? Really? Can you imagine the backlash had republicans done this? All they did was vote against a bill and the mainstream media tried to tear them to pieces. These punks fled the state and hardly anyone is reporting on it. Disgusting cowards, they should all be fired.

"It's more about theatrics than anything else," Walker said, predicting that the group would come back in a day or two, after realizing "they're elected to do a job."Walker said Democrats could still offer amendments to change the bill, but he vowed not to concede on his plan to end most collective bargaining rights.

Republicans hold a 19-14 majority in the Senate, but rules mandate 20 members for a quorum. That means they needed at least one Democrat present before they could vote on the bill.

I can't believe what these cowards who took office to serve the people of WI are doing. Fleeing the state? Really? Can you imagine the backlash had republicans done this? All they did was vote against a bill and the mainstream media tried to tear them to pieces. These punks fled the state and hardly anyone is reporting on it. Disgusting cowards, they should all be fired.

Yeah, it's nothing at all like what the Republicans have been doing in DC since Obama took office. I guess cowardice comes in different colors - both blue AND red. Both sides should be ashamed.

Dave

Yeah, it's nothing at all like what the Republicans have been doing in DC since Obama took office. I guess cowardice comes in different colors - both blue AND red. Both sides should be ashamed.

Dave

Sorry I must have missed the story where the republicans pulled a stunt that STOPPED a vote from happening, maybe you can send me a link to the story about it? Voting no against something is quite different, at least they have the balls to show up and vote, even if they knew they'd be beat as was the case with obamacare. I don't remember many republican's fleeing the capitol so they wouldn't be made to vote, but again, maybe they did and I just missed the story. However, thats not really what is being discussed here, it's about these particular lawmakers being cowards and running from a problem, remember your Saturday morning cartoons when they told you that's not the answer, guess what, it still isn't. I've talked to a few people I know who live in WI, and they are dumbfounded and more than anything, MAD, these people are elected to serve them, and are paid well to do so, and they are running away from their job. How would it go over if a house caught fire in my district and instead of responding to the fire we drove the engine's the other way so we wouldn't have to deal with it? Or if I were a teacher and decided to call in sick and my students didn't get to learn for a week, oh wait, that's what the teachers in WI are doing, "for the children." Nothing helps children like teachers striking because they're going to have to contribute more to their retirement and health benefits. Sad. I'm sure every Charter School in the nation is licking their chops to get into WI and start taking students away from the public schools, and good for them.

Well, I'm just so glad that Joe the Plumber will be there. Send in another clown for the goat rodeo!

"The only Beck I trust has two turntables and a microphone."

Sorry I must have missed the story where the republicans pulled a stunt that STOPPED a vote from happening, maybe you can send me a link to the story about it? Voting no against something is quite different, at least they have the balls to show up and vote, even if they knew they'd be beat as was the case with obamacare. I don't remember many republican's fleeing the capitol so they wouldn't be made to vote, but again, maybe they did and I just missed the story. However, thats not really what is being discussed here, it's about these particular lawmakers being cowards and running from a problem, remember your Saturday morning cartoons when they told you that's not the answer, guess what, it still isn't. I've talked to a few people I know who live in WI, and they are dumbfounded and more than anything, MAD, these people are elected to serve them, and are paid well to do so, and they are running away from their job. How would it go over if a house caught fire in my district and instead of responding to the fire we drove the engine's the other way so we wouldn't have to deal with it? Or if I were a teacher and decided to call in sick and my students didn't get to learn for a week, oh wait, that's what the teachers in WI are doing, "for the children." Nothing helps children like teachers striking because they're going to have to contribute more to their retirement and health benefits. Sad. I'm sure every Charter School in the nation is licking their chops to get into WI and start taking students away from the public schools, and good for them.

Sorry I must have missed the story where the republicans pulled a stunt that STOPPED a vote from happening, maybe you can send me a link to the story about it? Voting no against something is quite different, at least they have the balls to show up and vote, even if they knew they'd be beat as was the case with obamacare. I don't remember many republican's fleeing the capitol so they wouldn't be made to vote, but again, maybe they did and I just missed the story. However, thats not really what is being discussed here, it's about these particular lawmakers being cowards and running from a problem, remember your Saturday morning cartoons when they told you that's not the answer, guess what, it still isn't. I've talked to a few people I know who live in WI, and they are dumbfounded and more than anything, MAD, these people are elected to serve them, and are paid well to do so, and they are running away from their job. How would it go over if a house caught fire in my district and instead of responding to the fire we drove the engine's the other way so we wouldn't have to deal with it? Or if I were a teacher and decided to call in sick and my students didn't get to learn for a week, oh wait, that's what the teachers in WI are doing, "for the children." Nothing helps children like teachers striking because they're going to have to contribute more to their retirement and health benefits. Sad. I'm sure every Charter School in the nation is licking their chops to get into WI and start taking students away from the public schools, and good for them.

Call it how you see it. I'm not taking sides. To me, it's obstructionary politics, and it is ALL game-playing, at the expense of the average citizen. I don't agree with any of it.

Dave

Call it how you see it. I'm not taking sides. To me, it's obstructionary politics, and it is ALL game-playing, at the expense of the average citizen. I don't agree with any of it.

Dave

I agree with you here for sure. Support of public employee unions has only gone down since this started, and the public support of the democrats from WI has also tanked this week over this. They don't seem to see what they're doing, and that they are not only hurting themselves but they are hurting lots of working class folks who they are supposed to be protecting.

This isn't about the democrats refusing to be bullied by Walker, it is about the bigger, more sinister agenda of the republicans in DC and those who are governors. Walker will not negotiate with the democrats. He has dug in his heels and refuses to compromise on the issue of unions losing their collective bargaining powers. Because that's what it's all about.

Let's take a look at the so-called reasons behind the bill. That these states have to reduce spending and somehow the unions are blamed. The reason that state pension plans are in bad shape is that they lost billions in the stock market (like everyone else) due to wall street and corporate greed and the failed economic policies of the bush administration and now they want to blame unions and public employees for this.

The unions are willing to pay more for their health care and pensions, it is the loss of collective bargaining rights that they oppose. But Walker will not budge.

The bigger, more sinister agenda of republicans for the last 30 years is to starve the beast (de-fund all the social safety nets from FDR on), de-regulate corporate america (their donors) make the rich richer, and bust the unions (and thus votes for democrats).

We need to have collective bargaining rights in this country to have a balance of power. Otherwise the employer has all the power and those at the top (CEO's) get to negotiate their contracts so why shouldn't the people who actually do the work negotiate theirs?

As to the support for unions - well, 70,000 showed up today - overwhelming the Koch brothers, corporate funded tea baggers they brought in for the opposition.

It is about the democrats being cowardly and refusing to do the job they were elected and are paid to do. Sure there is more going on, there always is, but this is big, this has never happened before. They fled the state, what would have been said and done in the mainstream media had republicans tried this stunt(that's all it is)? There is fraud and corruption running rampant in WI right now, and it's on the dem side. These doctors who showed up the other day to sign bogus sick notes for the "teachers" who are there for the children, what a crock, they are there because they don't want to have to pay more and are scared of losing their strangle hold over the government, thats what unions have, a stranglehold.

The proposed bill does not, I repeat, DOES NOT, remove all of their collective bargaining rights, it limits the rights of fringe benefits, including pensions and healthcare, they can still bargain for safety measures(HA what a joke, unions have become greed machines looking out for the #1 which is MONEY MONEY MONEY), and even increase in salary. They aren't threatening yet to make the state a right to work state(which IMO would be great), though there are 22 in the US and they seem to be the states that businesses are flocking too right now(mind you, I'm in a public employee union as is my wife, but if either of us had the choice we wouldn't be). This (the dems fleeing the state) is a huge story, and everyone knows it, and the left along with the MSM is doing their best to downplay it, but it's not working. Rachel Maddow was caught in a nice little lie earlier today, along with Brian Williams while trying to downplay this. It was good of Fox News to call them out on it. Again, just the backlash republicans got for voting no, was infinitely worse than what these cowards are getting for running away and not doing there jobs.

Back to the sick notes now, a physician friend of mine who lives in WI said that there is an uproar amongst doctors in the state to have these doctors who wrote bogus sick notes sanctioned and investigated for fraud, and according to him it might be happening within the week, the WI medical licensing board isn't to pleased apparently. It was nice of these teachers who are doing this "for the children" to leave the children out of school for a week while they illegal go on strike. I'm sure the parents had a good time finding day care and paying for all those extra expenses, thanks again teachers.

According to CM the reason for these budget shortfalls is greedy corporate wall street and surprise surprise, George W. So lets just say your right. Bad wall street, bad Georgy, shame on you. Okay now that that is done, how do you fix the problem, the finger pointing is great, seriously I mean bravo, you pointed the finger, now fix the damn problem. Should George W. be paying these unfunded pensions from his pocket? Or should they be funded by wall street? Should they take a cut in profits and send all the state the hundreds of billions of dollars they are short with unfunded pensions? I'm curious what your fix is here. We're in the problem, we can't just point a finger at and hope the money comes back because blame has been placed. There needs to be solutions, and right now the Governor of WI has a solution, that looks like it will work, and there are a handful of other states that will be hopping on this wagon very soon. Governor Walker ran his campaign on the promise of doing EXACTLY what he doing now, and the people of WI elected him. He told them in no uncertain terms when he got elected he would do what he is doing now, and apparently that was the people's will, so why should these democrats not carry it out. I'm pretty sure I've seen CM post multiple times saying that since the dems were in control when healthcare was voted on it was the will of the people and that republicans needed to sit back and take it. Well the shoe is on the other foot CM why aren't the dems sitting there and taking it like they preached, it's obviously the will of the people of WI.

There isn't a pension crisis for public employees - Walker is just using that as an excuse to bust unions. Unions got collective bargaining rights in the 1970's in Wisconsin and for 4 decades it has been working fine. If Walker claims that eliminating collective bargaining rights is an economic issue, then why are the State Trooper, police and firefighter unions exempt. Hmmm. Could it be because they supporter Walker and the teacher's union didn't. Talk about corruption (more on that later). And BTW, the president of the police union said it was a mistake to back Walker.

The democrats are preventing the union bashing republicans from pushing this through without debate. When Walker agrees to compromise about this bill with the democrats then they will return.

I wish that people like you and your wife could opt out of unions and all the benefits they bargain for and instead negotiate your own salary and working conditions. Now, that's change that I could support. Because while you bash unions you are more than happy to be recipients not only of your particular benefits but the long history of benefits that resulted from their efforts.

Here's the real corruption in Wisconsin politics:

The Koch Brothers' End Game in Wisconsin

Oh my, we got ourselves quite a tail-wagging going on in Wisconsin. You are thinking, what? This is about collective bargaining and workers' rights!

Bullshit. You are being wagged.

As always this has to do with money, and the union "compromise" coming down the pipe was set up to be the "booby" prize while the Koch Brothers get their "booty" prize. This is all being well-orchestrated with an end game that has absolutely nothing to do with unions.

As I said in comments before, to much bewilderment, this is about power plants and a vertical monopoly the Kock Brothers have their eye on in Wisconsin.

So in short:

1) Koch Brothers get their puppet Governor Walker in power

2) Governor Walker gins up a crisis

3) Democrats and Progressives take the bait and counter-protest on collective bargaining

4) Governor Walker will compromise on collective bargaining if the rest of the budget is passed as is

5) Bill passes, with trojan horse give-a-way to the Koch Brothers nested in

6) Koch Brothers will buy Wisconsin state-owned power plants for pennies on the dollar in closed unsolicitated bids for which there will be no oversight

7) Koch Brothers get the best vertical monopoly in a generation

First off, before we talk about how this going to play out, because I have seen this same game tape, let's talk about why the Koch Brothers would have made Governor Walker their Manchurian Candidate.

When you are calling bullshit on such a grand scale as I, it takes extraordinary evidence.

So let's first state that the Koch Brothers placed their puppet Walker into power.

Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker: Funded by the Koch Bros.

By Andy Kroll, Mother Jones

http://motherjones.com/...

According to Wisconsin campaign finance filings, Walker's gubernatorial campaign received $43,000 from the Koch Industries PAC during the 2010 election. That donation was his campaign's second-highest, behind $43,125 in contributions from housing and realtor groups in Wisconsin. The Koch's PAC also helped Walker via a familiar and much-used politicial maneuver designed to allow donors to skirt campaign finance limits. The PAC gave $1 million to the Republican Governors Association, which in turn spent $65,000 on independent expenditures to support Walker. The RGA also spent a whopping $3.4 million on TV ads and mailers attacking Walker's opponent, Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett. Walker ended up beating Barrett by 5 points. The Koch money, no doubt, helped greatly.

Thanks to Kochs' poodles on the Supreme Court, this sort of activity is now legal. Poor Tom DeLay, bet he feels stupid for bribing the wrong people. Anyway, through the use of propaganda and corporate influence, the Kochs' money got their pigeon into the Governor's office.

Now here is where it gets tricky. Right now everyone thinks this is about collective bargaining and the rights of the worker, especially to assemble.

This is what these two Kochs want you to think. See, they are ginning up a great big whole controversy to hide something deep in the bill that they think no one will notice.

See, Governor Walker is going to back down on collective bargaining at the end of the day, if the Democrats will just "compromise" and pass the rest of the budget as is. The Democratic Party will view it as a success in policy and Progressives the land over will be doing a victory dance.

The Kochs will be laughing at you all, because they just played y'all like a fiddle.

See, when you think you won, this will get passed:

State of Wisconsin

SENATE BILL 11

Bottom of Page 23:

SECTION 44. 16.896 of the statutes is created to read:

16.896 Sale or contractual operation of state−owned heating, cooling, and power plants.

(1) Notwithstanding ss. 13.48 (14) (am) and 16.705 (1), the

department may sell any state−owned heating, cooling, and power plant or may

contract with a private entity for the operation of any such plant, with or without

solicitation of bids, for any amount that the department determines to be in the best

interest of the state.

Notwithstanding ss. 196.49 and 196.80, no approval or

certification of the public service commission is necessary for a public utility to

purchase, or contract for the operation of, such a plant, and any such purchase is

considered to be in the public interest and to comply with the criteria for certification

of a project under s. 196.49 (3) (

.

There are two big whoppers in this section, which is passing through the zeitgeist like ships in the night.

It will allow the Koch Brothers to buy or contract to operate state−owned heating, cooling, and power plants in Wisconsin without a solicitation of bids.

This is what it is about at the end of the day, and their puppet, Governor Walker, is ready to sell the Koch Brothers the state-owned utility system of Wisconsin for pennies on the dollar for his paymasters.

Governor Walker has intentionally muddied the waters concerning unions to muddy waters hoping no one will see the wholescale give-a-way of the state-owned public infrastructure to private interests.

Not only that, they are trying to redefine "public interest"! Who gets to decide? Not the public, Governor Walker by fiat!

Now combine that with the Koch Brothers' existing operations in Wisconsin:

http://www.kochind.com/...

# Flint Hills Resources, LLC, through its subsidiaries, is a leading refining and chemicals company. Its subsidiaries market products such as gasoline, diesel, jet fuel, ethanol, olefins, polymers and intermediate chemicals, as well as base oils and asphalt. A subsidiary distributes refined fuel through its strategically located pipelines and terminals in Junction City, Waupun, Madison and Milwaukee. Another subsidiary manufactures asphalt that is distributed to terminals in Green Bay and Stevens Point. # Koch Pipeline Company, L.P. operates a pipeline system that crosses Wisconsin, part of the nearly 4,000 miles of pipelines owned or operated by the company.

# The C. Reiss Coal Company is a leading supplier of coal used to generate power. The company has locations in Green Bay, Manitowoc, Ashland and Sheboygan.

With an ownership of resources, distribution and generation of energy, the Koch Brothers will have a vertical monopoly that would make even Rockefeller blush!

And just imagine the profits! They investment in Walker is gonna pay out big time.

Which was the plan all along.

Now we know the end game, who is going to block it?

And of course we know that the Koch brothers are part of the corporate money behind the tea party phonies.

Wow, this patience john guy is a crack pot huh? He wants arabic to be a mandated class in texas schools ? He sounds like the left's version of glenn beck, left wing psycho conspiracy theorist, does that about sum him up? I read number of his articles, and wow. Do you want to put a wager on this claim CM? Say, no posting in R&R's for 3months?

Wow, this patience john guy is a crack pot huh? He wants arabic to be a mandated class in texas schools ? He sounds like the left's version of glenn beck, left wing psycho conspiracy theorist, does that about sum him up? I read number of his articles, and wow. Do you want to put a wager on this claim CM? Say, no posting in R&R's for 3months?

What about the above article are you talking about or dispute? If you have info to dispute it do so, otherwise don't kill the messenger.

Also, to answer your previous questions about the solutions to wall street greed and bush's f**k up. Well, for starters, corporate america can get their rich, lazy a$$es off the 2 trillion in assets (thanks to us taxpayers) that they are sitting on, cut or eliminate bonuses - and combine it with the billions in tax cuts the republicans threw at them - and hire additional workers instead of overworking their current staff or shipping jobs overseas. That will do more to reduce the deficit than any cuts to SS.

And back to the issue of unions. Our streets in this country are stained with the blood of those who lost their lives fighting to improve working conditions for the rest of us. From coal miners, to railroad workers, steel worker and factory workers - they battled, lost lives, lost wages, lost homes so that YOU could enjoy:

-the minimum wage

-40 hr. work week

-overtime

-unemployment compensation

-worker's comp

-vacation and sick leave

-better and safer working conditions

You are more than happy to be the recipient of all the benefits won by those who have fought before you but then turn around and bash unions and their right to collective bargaining that won these rights for you. What a huge hypocrite. Just like so many others.

Wow, this patience john guy is a crack pot huh? He wants arabic to be a mandated class in texas schools ? He sounds like the left's version of glenn beck, left wing psycho conspiracy theorist, does that about sum him up? I read number of his articles, and wow. Do you want to put a wager on this claim CM? Say, no posting in R&R's for 3months?

Here is an article about the arabic in texas schools:

The Foreign Language Assistance Program (FLAP) grant was awarded to Mansfield ISD last summer by the U.S. Department of Education.

As part of the five-year $1.3 million grant, Arabic classes would be mandatory at Cross Timbers Intermediate School and Kenneth Davis Elementary School. The program would also be optional for students at T. A. Howard Middle School and Summit High School.

Parents at Cross Timbers say they were caught off-guard by the program, and were surprised the district only told them about it in a meeting Monday night between parents and Mansfield ISD Superintendent Bob Morrison.

The DOE has identified Arabic as a 'language of the future.' But parent Joseph Balson was frustrated by the past. "Why are we just now finding out about it?" asked Balson. "It's them (Mansfield ISD) applying for the grant, getting it approved and them now saying they'll go back and change it only when they were caught trying to implement this plan without parents knowing about it."

So, big deal - patience john supports this. It didn't originate with him. I think it's a good idea so that our future leaders can say in arabic: Hi, we're from the United States and we're here to take your oil.

But I also think Chinese should be mandated so that our future leaders can say in Chinese: Hi, I'm from the United States and I need a loan to pay for the tax cuts for the rich and two unfunded wars. And can we still keep importing your cheap goods in exchange?

What about the above article are you talking about or dispute? If you have info to dispute it do so, otherwise don't kill the messenger.

Also, to answer your previous questions about the solutions to wall street greed and bush's f**k up. Well, for starters, corporate america can get their rich, lazy a$es off the 2 trillion in assets (thanks to us taxpayers) that they are sitting on, cut or eliminate bonuses - and combine it with the billions in tax cuts the republicans threw at them - and hire additional workers instead of overworking their current staff or shipping jobs overseas. That will do more to reduce the deficit than any cuts to SS.

And back to the issue of unions. Our streets in this country are stained with the blood of those who lost their lives fighting to improve working conditions for the rest of us. From coal miners, to railroad workers, steel worker and factory workers - they battled, lost lives, lost wages, lost homes so that YOU could enjoy:

-the minimum wage

-40 hr. work week

-overtime

-unemployment compensation

-worker's comp

-vacation and sick leave

-better and safer working conditions

You are more than happy to be the recipient of all the benefits won by those who have fought before you but then turn around and bash unions and their right to collective bargaining that won these rights for you. What a huge hypocrite. Just like so many others.

I'm saying the guy sounds like a crackpot conspiracy theorist, and you seem to have faith in him or you wouldn't be posting his drivel. So my bet is that the Koch brother's wont end up doing all the things his article claims, such as buying all the power plants in WI for penny's on the dollar.

Yes the unions did all that, and now we have those things, and unions no longer fight for that stuff, they fight for money, they have become as greedy as the wall street fat cats you hate so much. And again, this bill doesn't hider the unions from doing any of the things you listed, what it does is stop them from negotiating for higher pensions and benefits, and since the unions this will affect have a great pension and great benefits and still pay much much less than their private industry counterparts for it, I think what is proposed makes great sense. It's foresight, unions have been greedy in the past and there is no sign of it stopping.

forum wont let me insert a link so here's this.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/02/22/ethics-lesson-wisconsin-doctors-writing-fake-sick-notes/

Also on the union front, it seems some WI doctors are about to wish they had some union representation as the WI medical board is investigating them now for the phony sick notes they wrote, and are saying that this is on par with writing unnecessary or fraudulent prescriptions, which could result in the revocation of there medical licenses. Which would be a fitting lesson to the rest of those out there who think they should commit fraud for these people.

Corporate America is sitting on their $2T in assets because they are afraid of what the democrats are going to try to do with taxes. Instability has always made people hoard. This is no different, they see no reason to invest their money because there is so much instability and that scares them, so the logical thing to do is sit on the money and take the sure thing(interest payments on the money or whatever investment they have). They were demonized for taking risk's and now that they aren't taking risk's and they're being demonized again, they can't win.

Speaking of hypocrisy, you keep avoiding the hypocrisy of the left with the coverage of what the cowardly democrats are pulling in WI. You know as well as anyone if the republicans had pulled a stunt like this the left would be in an uproar, the media would have had a field day with it. And all the left(including you) can do is divert attention anywhere else.

I'm saying the guy sounds like a crackpot conspiracy theorist, and you seem to have faith in him or you wouldn't be posting his drivel. So my bet is that the Koch brother's wont end up doing all the things his article claims, such as buying all the power plants in WI for penny's on the dollar.

Yes the unions did all that, and now we have those things, and unions no longer fight for that stuff, they fight for money, they have become as greedy as the wall street fat cats you hate so much. And again, this bill doesn't hider the unions from doing any of the things you listed, what it does is stop them from negotiating for higher pensions and benefits, and since the unions this will affect have a great pension and great benefits and still pay much much less than their private industry counterparts for it, I think what is proposed makes great sense. It's foresight, unions have been greedy in the past and there is no sign of it stopping.

forum wont let me insert a link so here's this.

http://www.foxnews.c...ake-sick-notes/

Also on the union front, it seems some WI doctors are about to wish they had some union representation as the WI medical board is investigating them now for the phony sick notes they wrote, and are saying that this is on par with writing unnecessary or fraudulent prescriptions, which could result in the revocation of there medical licenses. Which would be a fitting lesson to the rest of those out there who think they should commit fraud for these people.

Corporate America is sitting on their $2T in assets because they are afraid of what the democrats are going to try to do with taxes. Instability has always made people hoard. This is no different, they see no reason to invest their money because there is so much instability and that scares them, so the logical thing to do is sit on the money and take the sure thing(interest payments on the money or whatever investment they have). They were demonized for taking risk's and now that they aren't taking risk's and they're being demonized again, they can't win.

Speaking of hypocrisy, you keep avoiding the hypocrisy of the left with the coverage of what the cowardly democrats are pulling in WI. You know as well as anyone if the republicans had pulled a stunt like this the left would be in an uproar, the media would have had a field day with it. And all the left(including you) can do is divert attention anywhere else.

I think what patience john said sounds rational to me. You made it sound like he started some movement to teach arabic in texas schools. And as far as any bet - well I'm still waiting for you to make good on your promise to vote for Obama if I could prove that the republicans said they wanted Obama's agenda (and thus him) to fail before he was sworn in - which I did prove with the NY Times article about their meeting on January 11, 2009.

Seriously, you have been drinking to much of the kool aid. Corporate America is "worried". That is so laughable. Have you not been reading about how well they are doing? Profits are up. Even if the democrats returned taxes to the Clinton age level they would still be doing well. They want it all - no regulations, no taxes, and a bailout when they f**k up.

Is that what you call the economic collapse - taking a risk? OMG, could you possible be that naive?? It was out and out fraud, lies, gambling and deceit - from the worthless mortgage bundles knowingly sold as profitable, then insuring them with AIG. It's like selling a car with bad brakes as in tip top shape and then taking out insurance on it. And the insurance company doesn't have enough money to cover the loss, but then they didn't think they'd need to (because after all it was in great shape) and then the car crashes and payment due -except the payment came from us taxpayers because the companies were broke.

I am glad you have so much faith in the polluting, corporate Koch brothers. It will be quid pro quo for them in Wisconsin. Let's see if faux news reports on that when it happens.

Yeah, the unions fight for money. Wow. Who would think people would like to make more money? Shocking. How dare they. We all know that non-union employees don't want, ask for or get more money. They have a right to collective bargaining - that means both sides agree. That is what bargaining is all about and it's what Walker wants to strip away. It's what made our country great - we even have the word in our country's beginnings ...in order to form a more perfect union. It doesn't say in order to form a more perfect corporation (the right wing supreme court activist judges are the only ones saying that.). And again I will point out that Walker doesn't want to strip the collective bargaining rights of the unions who supported him. I guess those unions aren't greedy or never ask for more money.

The public employees have agreed to pay more for their pensions and health care but not to have their collective bargaining rights stripped away - and that is what it's about. If the state budget needs balanced then it should be on everyone - all the unions, all the businesses and all the taxpayers sharing the burden - not the political bullying Walker is doing.

As for the doctors supposedly writing bogus sick day excuses. If this can be proved, then do it. But I suspect the proof is just a dream of those on the right. Let me know how that investigation goes. Something tell me nowhere.

Just another distraction for the real issue: UNION BUSTING WALKER.

And I wish the U.S. republicans senators would go hide out somewhere. All of them. Then we might get something done. I wish they would have done it two years ago. Texas would be a good place. I'd even help pay for airfare.

Just another left wing conspiracy theorist? Actually, a nobel prize winning economist who once again, nails it.:

Paul Krugman: Wisconsin power playWhat is happening is not about the state budgetTuesday, February 22, 2011The New York TimesLast week, in the face of protest demonstrations against Wisconsin's new union-busting governor, Scott Walker -- demonstrations that continued through the weekend, with huge crowds on Saturday -- Rep. Paul Ryan made an unintentionally apt comparison: "It's like Cairo has moved to Madison."

It wasn't the smartest thing for Mr. Ryan to say, since he probably didn't mean to compare Gov. Walker, a fellow Republican, to Hosni Mubarak. Or maybe he did -- after all, quite a few prominent conservatives, including Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh and Rick Santorum, denounced the uprising in Egypt and insist that President Barack Obama should have helped the Mubarak regime suppress it.

In any case, however, Mr. Ryan was more right than he knew. For what's happening in Wisconsin isn't about the state budget, despite Mr. Walker's pretense that he's just trying to be fiscally responsible. It is, instead, about power. What Mr. Walker and his backers are trying to do is to make Wisconsin -- and eventually, America -- less of a functioning democracy and more of a third-world-style oligarchy. And that's why anyone who believes that we need some counterweight to the political power of big money should be on the demonstrators' side.

Some background: Wisconsin is indeed facing a budget crunch, although its difficulties are less severe than those facing many other states. Revenue has fallen in the face of a weak economy, while stimulus funds, which helped close the gap in 2009 and 2010, have faded away.

In this situation, it makes sense to call for shared sacrifice, including monetary concessions from state workers. And union leaders have signaled that they are, in fact, willing to make such concessions.

But Mr. Walker isn't interested in making a deal. Partly that's because he doesn't want to share the sacrifice: even as he proclaims that Wisconsin faces a terrible fiscal crisis, he has been pushing through tax cuts that make the deficit worse. Mainly, however, he has made it clear that rather than bargaining with workers, he wants to end workers' ability to bargain.

The bill that has inspired the demonstrations would strip away collective bargaining rights for many of the state's workers, in effect busting public-employee unions. Tellingly, some workers -- namely, those who tend to be Republican-leaning -- are exempted from the ban; it's as if Mr. Walker were flaunting the political nature of his actions.

Why bust the unions? As I said, it has nothing to do with helping Wisconsin deal with its current fiscal crisis. Nor is it likely to help the state's budget prospects even in the long run: contrary to what you may have heard, public-sector workers in Wisconsin and elsewhere are paid somewhat less than private-sector workers with comparable qualifications, so there's not much room for further pay squeezes. (news you won't hear on fox)

So it's not about the budget; it's about the power.

In principle, every U.S. citizen has an equal say in our political process. In practice, of course, some of us are more equal than others. Billionaires can field armies of lobbyists; they can finance think tanks that put the desired spin on policy issues; they can funnel cash to politicians with sympathetic views (as the Koch brothers did in the case of Mr. Walker). On paper, we're a one-person-one-vote nation; in reality, we're more than a bit of an oligarchy, in which a handful of wealthy people dominate.

Given this reality, it's important to have institutions that can act as counterweights to the power of big money. And unions are among the most important of these institutions.

You don't have to love unions, you don't have to believe that their policy positions are always right, to recognize that they're among the few influential players in our political system representing the interests of middle- and working-class Americans, as opposed to the wealthy. Indeed, if America has become more oligarchic and less democratic over the last 30 years -- which it has -- that's to an important extent due to the decline of private-sector unions.

And now Mr. Walker and his backers are trying to get rid of public-sector unions, too.

There's a bitter irony here. The fiscal crisis in Wisconsin, as in other states, was largely caused by the increasing power of America's oligarchy. After all, it was super-wealthy players, not the general public, who pushed for financial deregulation and thereby set the stage for the economic crisis of 2008-9, a crisis whose aftermath is the main reason for the current budget crunch. And now the political right is trying to exploit that very crisis, using it to remove one of the few remaining checks on oligarchic influence.

(Gee, weren't they just taking risks?)

So will the attack on unions succeed? I don't know. But anyone who cares about retaining government of the people by the people should hope that it doesn't.

Paul Krugman is a syndicated columnist for The New York Times.<BR clear=all>