ouroborous

Oh no doubt, a lot of women seem to carry weight in their hips and thighs and caboose. But here's the unpleasant little secret; once we drop that fat, we're all in danger of becoming 'saggy butts' or 'no butts' (more common for men, but still). For men, working on your butt and legs gives you that powerful lower body look, with thick, strong legs and a tight, firm butt (jeez, I sound like a porno advertisement here, but you know what I mean!) For women, y'all just don't bulk up as much (sorry, ladies who claim you do, but you don't -- unless you have abnormally high testosterone, you're simply NOT at risk of "bulking up") -- instead, muscular butt and thighs produces that classic "hourglass" shape, but instead of being based upon fat deposits, it's based upon strong, lean muscle. And it looks amazing

Thanks for the good advice. I think that there's only one thing that I wanted to comment on: "muscles will only grow ... when we push them to failure." That's absolutely true, but I wanted to point out that there are different kinds of "failure," especially with the legs. There's the "okay, three sets of eight reps with near-max weight" kind of failure, which produces a very short-term wobbly-leg feeling, but almost no "burn" or "pump," and then there's the "two or three sets of twenty five reps with sixty percent of max" kind of failure, which produces not just the wobbly legs, but also a good burn (well, a hell-on-earth feeling burn, but you know what I mean with "good" ) and a good pump. And I haven't been focused on it long enough to be certain, but I'd be willing to bet that -- for my legs at least, the latter, higher-reps, lower weight, types of sets are doing more long-term good with regards to adding mass and strength and endurance. I definitely know the difference in feeling between an anaerobic and an aerobic workout, and it's still an anaerobic workout, but the lower-weight-higher-reps sets seem to produce more anabolic side effects for me. I'd bet it varies for different people, and I'm not skimping on the max weight stuff (my low weight, high rep stuff is lunges and cycling and so on, but I still do leg presses on the machine with 250 pounds or more), but I really have to focus on what seems to produce the best effects for me. That's one of the weirdest things about bodybuilding; it seems like you just can't find a one-size-fits-all solution, since everyone's body and muscles react differently.

Guys, lemme say, if you're significantly overweight like I was, you're going to be THRILLED with the results. Your only regret will be not doing this sooner!

Yeah, sadly, squats with any kind of weight are out of the picture because my sad little gym only has a smith machine, and apparently those just WRECK your body with squats. I can and will do walking dumbbell lunges (my balance is kind of iffy, but hopefully that will improve) at home every day and the leg press machine at the gym three times a week. As you say, it's hard to know "when to say when" with legs stuff -- I've discovered that I need to go a little lighter on the weight and do enough reps for a burn if I want to feel it the next day. If I go heavier, to where I hit failure before I hit the burn, I'm not sure I'm actually doing my legs much good.

Well, I don't want to give the impression that I'm some god of Adonis-like proportions; until I get rid of the tummy "pooch" I still think it would be embarrassing to have a made-to-measure shirt fitted. But I could definitely use that after I get the tummy tuck, so thanks for the advice... in the meantime I'll probably stick with the huge, billowy Old Navy shirts just because they're cheap and while my proportions AREN'T "classic wedge" yet, I don't want to spend a ton of money on clothes that I'd be too embarrassed to wear. I also want to avoid the "older guy trying to wear a young kid's clothes" effect.

I have to say that figuring out what size I am since surgery is really challenging! Before surgery, I really thought of myself as a "big guy" -- not just fat, but huge across the chest and shoulders. Well, I'm sad to say that a lot of that was just plain old fat. Now since the surgery, I'm finding that I don't seem to fit cleanly into a particular size range. In the shoulders, I'm slightly larger than a large but probably a tad below extra large. I'm also starting to notice how almost all of the guys I see browsing extra large ("Big and Tall" -- what a lovely euphemism for "obese and tall") are, well, fat. I certainly was. In the stomach, aside from this stupid, stubborn pooch of fat and loose skin (I WILL get a tummy tuck this year, dammit!) I'm a medium, if not smaller. That is a BIZARRE problem for me to have; I'm starting to have that stereotypical male "wedge" shape, and I'm discovering that clothes for the American male simply aren't tailored for that body type! Stuff that fits me in the shoulders is huge and billowy in the arms (despite my rather impressive "guns," if I say so myself ) and just VAST in the waist. Also, because of that "pooch" I mentioned, my pants don't... fit right. They ride a little low, giving the impression of a saggy butt when really the opposite is true, but my waistband isn't where it should be! Last but not least, I'm discovering that different brands seem to have vastly different definitions of sizes! I've been used to wearing Eddie Bauer and Old Navy stuff, and I'm suspecting that they are VERY generous in the cut, because when I went into the Gap to try on a sweatshirt that looked nice on the mannequin -- size large -- I looked like the bloody incredible Hulk in it! Not only was it VERY unflatteringly tight across my tummy, but it was so tight across my chest and arms that I swear, if I'd "flexed" I would have ripped out of it like a stripper in the Full Monty! And yet a size "large" from Eddie Bauer is loose and billowy! SO either the Gap is drastically undersizing things, or Eddie Bauer is (more likely) doing "vanity sizing." This is all so new to me; before I lost the weight everything I could wear was only one size "vast and tent-like." The thought of ever fitting into a medium ANYTHING would have made me laugh out loud!

Yeah, I just got the uric acid numbers back from the doc; they're perfect. So I don't have gout or arthritis (thank god, I'm only 41!) -- my sore muscles and joints are pretty much 100% due to overdoing it with weights (for the sore hands) and probably bad form with my crunches (for the sore hips). Good news, of course, is that both are easily correctable.

So at this point I'm 90% plus sure it's not gout. I asked my Mom when I saw her this weekend, and she said that I'd been mistaken; she does NOT have gout. My Dad has it, but it tends to follow maternal genetics more, and his kidneys are failing due to advanced congestive heart failure, so gout isn't too surprising, sadly. Add to that the fact that simply not working out for a few days caused the pain and stiffness in my hands to completely vanish, and I think that the pain in my hips may be due to incorrect form when doing my crunches in the morning, and I really think that my wounds are self-inflicted. Regardless, since my insurance rocks and my doctor ordered the blood test, I got a draw this morning to test ureic acid levels, so I'll know for sure in a few days. Bottom line, I think I've been overdoing it (and using bad form). Now, I need to figure out how to do crunches so they don't hurt my hips and low back!

It's too cute for us guys... *must* *hide* my *eyes*

OK now I'm speechless...

Actually from what I can tell, lunges are kind of the gold standard for "safe, effective leg training" for us non powerlifters. And I have to say: a well performed lunge (good form, etc.) with weights is actually ten times as hard on my quads and hamstrings as 200+ on the bar on the smith machine. And they don't make my legs hurt! (Also, I've discovered that many of the "hardest" poses in yoga seem to just be modified lunges; warrior pose, anyone?)

Please remember that there are men on this forum (many of us with the first "normal" hormone levels... ever) who may be inflamed by sight of an LBD. We are not responsible for the consequences...

I hear you and I definitely share your frustration. Now that I'm much closer to the end of my weight loss journey than the beginning of it, I'm pretty much ALL plateaus. Technically I still have about 19 pounds to lose to be at a "normal" bodyweight, and my current goal is about 14 more pounds (I weighed in at just over 216 today, and I'd like to get to around 200-205, which would make me still overweight, but only just barely, according to the BMI charts). That being said, my body fat % is at about 20% and dropping, which is, frankly, pretty damn good for an American guy in his (early) 40's who works at a desk job, especially when you consider that my BMI was nearly 45 before I started (I have no idea what my body fat percentage was, but I'm sure it was just a horror show). I know that these last 15 pounds are going to be harder to lose than the first 120+ pounds were put together because my body is now in a constant fight with me over every single calorie, and the level of dedication required to "get there" is such that I am almost having to completely reinvent who I am as a person in order to even try to hit my goal. But the nice thing is that with the sleeve, I know I at least have a shot at it. Before the sleeve, no way Jose. But it wasn't all wine and roses on the way down, either. I hit a mini-plateau at around 250 where I thought "well, that's it, I'm done. I'm still obese, and I can't lose any more weight." This stall lasted several weeks, if I recall. I tried everything I could think of -- more Water, less water, more Protein, less carbs, the "pouch reset," more exercise... everything. Nothing made a difference. And then, right on the tail end of a vacation (where I wasn't eating great -- I was on vacation! -- and I even had some beer), I get home and BAM... 10 pounds gone. And then it just started melting away again, without me seeming to change much of anything. What changed? Who knows... some complicated internal body chemistry thing; I wasn't anywhere NEAR "goal," but for some reason, right around 250 lbs, my body suddenly freaked out and said "MUST... STOP... LOSING... WEIGHT!" Bottom line is that you have to have a little faith. The faith is, for me, in science and statistics: if you do the right things (be mindful of your eating, try to drink enough water, try to move as much as you can, get good sleep, etc.) and have patience, you WILL get down to at or near a "normal" BMI... eventually. It may not happen today, and it almost certainly won't happen as fast as you want. But it WILL happen, so you might as well not freak yourself out over it in the meantime. If you're still not there and you hit a plateau or gain a couple back, do a quick reality check -- am I doing the right things? Am I eating right? Am I moving (exercising) enough? Is my diet more slanted towards protein and complex carbs than simple carbs? If that's all in order, then it's just "one of those things," and it's better to just let it go and (try to) focus on all the good things your weight loss has already given you.

Well, the thing is that I've wondered about this achy fingers thing for a while. From what I read about gout, it's pretty common, and it's the most preventable and treatable of all forms of arthritis. If I *do* have it (I have to avoid leaping to conclusions and diagnosing myself until my doctor can give the final answer, of course), it would explain a long-standing mystery in a relatively benign way. It would fit a lot of the evidence (which always makes my scientist/computer programmer's brain happy), and it's something that I could treat by doing all the stuff I'm trying to do ANYWAY (maintain a healthy weight, keep my sleep healthy and sound, avoid too much red/rich meat and alcohol, and so on). So, while my initial reaction to the thought was denial because I thought it would mean lifelong, crippling, untreatable pain, it sounds like the opposite, if I have it. It's very treatable -- often without even needing medication -- and once treated, a long-term source of pain and discomfort might just magically go away. Where's the downside in THAT?

Oh, one last thing: it's very, very normal to plateau, and it's very, very normal to regain 5 or even 10 pounds (depends upon your frame; us bigger guys can gain 10 pounds as easily as you smaller gals can gain 5). When the weight gain starts getting into the 15 or 20 plus pound range, that's when something is going wrong in your weight loss, and I'd talk to your dietitian/nutritionist/doctor/personal trainer about it.

Say it with me now, folks: plateaus are a normal part of the process. Getting stuck is a normal part of the process. I know... we don't want to hear that. I didn't want to hear that. I still hover anxiously near the scale sometimes, worried about every bleep and bloop on the number. But the fact is that the typical weight loss of a sleever goes something like this: A HUGE, exhilarating loss at first... it's almost effortless. You fart and the pounds come off. You eat good and the pounds come off. You eat BAD (which, you know, for a sleever in the early days means something like "well, last month I ate a cookie...") and the pounds come off. The problem with this early phase is that it completely destroys our sense of what a "normal" weight loss and maintenance profile feels like. This early phase where the weight just drops off is not normal. It's great, but it's not normal. Once you start getting down to what your body thinks its weight "should be" (it's actually a great deal more complicated than this; your body doesn't really have any idea what you "should" weigh, it's just that feedback mechanisms start to come into play and exert more force than the downward push from the sleeve) the loss will become slower and slower. And it isn't just a "steady" slowness; it's not like your body will go from 5 pounds a week to 3 pounds a week to a pound a week in a smooth progression. In fact, at times you'll plateau for days or weeks or even months (near the bottom end of the curve) at a time. At times your weight will even go up slightly (slightly: a prolonged and significant gain is usually a sign that something is wrong, whereas a 5-10 pound gain is typically a Water weight gain or a normal plateau fluctuation). You can break through the plateau -- assuming that you're not already at the low end of body fat -- but it doesn't always happen when you expect it to happen -- sometimes you get stuck and then you cut your calories and up your exercise and nothing changes (or you even gain a little) for days at a time, and then when you give up, suddenly your body starts shedding weight again. And finally when you start getting down near or below the low end of normal body fat (for most of us, it seems like this is around 20% body fat; fat location along with factors such as age and genetics seems to determine your "realistic minimum body fat"), shedding every ounce is a lot of frigging hard work, every day, forever. Most of us have a hard time keeping up that level of dedication (else we wouldn't have been obese to begin with), so most people seem to stick around 25%-ish bodyfat, which is still technically overweight (and of course, those of us who are very self-critical will harass ourselves mercilessly over that fact) but is, in fact, much healthier than the 40%, 50%, or even 60% body fat that some of us started with. Indeed, it's healthier, on average, than most modern Americans! The real problem is that early phase, where weight loss was effortless and we could do no wrong. It's sad to say, but important to remember, that that is not the norm. The sleeve continues to be a tool, and as long as you don't abuse it too bad, you can be pretty confident that you won't spiral back into that morbidly obese category. But it's not zero work, it's not effortless. You have to start really working it after a point, and the lower your body fat gets (remember: measure body fat, NOT weight -- weight can fluctuate by as much as 4 or 5 pounds *in a single day* due to water weight changes) the more you're going to hit plateaus, of longer and longer duration, and maybe even see some backtracking. The great thing about the sleeve is that even if you gain a few pounds, unlike before you can be pretty confident that you can get rid of them pretty quickly with a little self-discipline. Sorry for the long post, but it seems like a lot of people have sort of unrealistic expectations about life with the sleeve, and then whenever they see a blip on the scale they freak out and assume all is lost. It's not lost when you plateau or rebound a few pounds. It's completely normal.

Interesting: http://www.beatinggout.com/2009/04/gout-and-the-sleep-apnea-connection/ Apparently sleep apnea (which I know I have, and which I'm not sure is under control) is strongly correlated with gout (of which I have a family history). I don't have any of the other risk factors -- diabetes, metabolic syndrome, etc. -- but the only-barely-treated sleep apnea plus the family history might just make this worth looking into. Thanks for the tip; I'll be sure to follow up with my doc after he gets back from vacation.

Yeah, I don't actually know for sure that my levels were fine; all I know is that nothing was mentioned on my last blood tests. If you can have gout without high ureic acid on the blood tests, how on earth can they diagnose it? I thought high blood levels of ureic acid was the definition of gout... I need to go do some research!

This could definitely explain the aching hips and back; I AM using the same mattress that I had before losing the weight. Not only that, but when I got the mattress, I was so tired of having to buy a new mattress every year (because my whale-like body would carve a huge canyon into it otherwise!) that I got one of the hardest mattresses I could find. I've had "buy a new, softer mattress" on my to-do list for a while now. I still don't know if that can explain the finger stiffness, though.

Heh, thanks for the tip. I suspect I don't have gout since my last blood tests came back fine, and I know they tested my kidney function (which I assume would include ureic acid). Just on the off chance, however, I emailed my doc to ask him (gotta love doctors available by email). It doesn't hurt to ask, right? If I have gout at 41, I will be extremely pissed off.

Good recommendations; I'm basically taking ZERO time off for healing. I think I need to find a way to work this into my schedule (without letting it become just another excuse for slacking off, of course -- I'm really good at that!)

Yeah, I'm doing cardio basically every single day because the kind of low-impact, high-intensity cardio I do I'm pretty sure isn't going to cause any problems, and I honestly think that unless you go insane with it, you CAN'T overdo it on cardio. I also do a body weight calisthenics style routine every weekday -- pushups, lunges, crunches -- and I don't think those are going to cause any lasting problems since I do them with body weight only and try to focus on good form. It's just the weight training that I think I need to regroup with and focus on good form and high intensity, rather than doing the training every single day. It's hard because I'm enjoying bulking up and getting leaner, and so I naturally want more. But sometimes I think maybe less really is more!

So, back story. An embarrassing bit of trivia about me: I'm a hypochondriac. I mean, a major hypochondriac. Any little ache or twinge, and my mind immediately jumps to "it's the cancer!" I've learned how to combat this, in two primary ways. The first was just knowledge -- part of the reason that I'm a walking encyclopedia of medical knowledge is that I've learned that by training my brain about the things that REALLY go wrong with the body, and how likely they are, I can talk back to myself (often with a touch of humor) and tell myself "yes, it's possible that that twinge in your gut is cancer. But given that you literally have no other symptoms whatsoever, it's far more likely to be be gas." And lo and behold, it's gas! The second way that I fight my hypochondria is just by being as healthy as I can be; I don't smoke, I don't drink to excess (well, not very frequently anyway) and aside from an occasional (and I DO mean occasional, like a couple times a year tops) hint of the chronic (mostly to help me sleep -- I don't much care for the effects, but I'm a chronic insomniac), I have essentially no vices except coffee. According to my doctor, since the sleeve I'm in stupendous health, so I have absolutely no rational reason to be afraid for my health. But unfortunately, that doesn't stop my monkey mind from seizing on every little ache and pain and worrying about it incessantly. Lately, I've been noticing a couple of things. My hands ache -- especially my knuckles, especially in my right hand. Now, before I lost the weight, before I got my sleep apnea treated, I used to have horrible problems with stiff, swollen joints in the morning. It used to be that my hands would be so stiff in the morning that I couldn't bend my fingers; I discovered that by running them under hot Water for a few minutes, I could at least bend them, but they still hurt -- all day long. After I got on the CPAP for my apnea, that went away pretty much overnight. My sleep doctor explained that the strain of trying to breathe through a collapsed airway caused the body to retain Fluid, leading to joint swelling, so I guess that makes sense. Lately, I've been sleeping without the CPAP because after my last sleep study, where I was 100 lbs down from the previous one, my sleep doctor basically said "you're cured; it almost never happens, but as far as we can tell, you don't need the CPAP to get into REM sleep anymore." SO, I've been wondering if my stiff fingers have been a symptom of apnea creeping back in, and I've been experimenting with using my CPAP but it doesn't seem to make much of a difference. Also, my hips and lower back have been sort of sore (and of course, my hypochondria tells me that it's the colon cancer, which is pretty damn unlikely given I have zero other symptoms). It occurred to me on the way in to work today that I may be simply over-training. I lift weights every single week day -- in the mornings I have a dumbbell routine, and in the evenings I go to the gym where at a minimum I do crunches and lat pulldowns (I've been really trying to bulk up my back). Plus I've been doing a LOT of leg work lately to try to bulk up my legs... I may be overdoing it! My sore fingers MIGHT actually be the result of doing weights almost every single day. And my sore back and hips might be the result of bad form doing squats at the gym; I recently switched to squats from the leg press machine to try to get more intensity, but I don't think it's helping and it might have been the trigger for the pain. It's a little surprising to me because I've been so excited about actually seeing progress in my weight loss and body toning (for the first time ever) that I just want more, more, more... but there may be a point where it's too much! I'm thinking that a condensed routine three days a week might be a good start. The trainer at the gym seemed to think that maybe even two days a week, but intense, might be best. Has anyone else had this experience, where in order to keep making progress you have to work out less frequently?

Sadly, I don't have access to a free weights bar; all I have is a smith machine, so I can't drop the bar if it's too much. This is one reason that I've been very careful to avoid putting too much weight on it; I want to add strength and bulk (and I agree, ultimately to add muscle bulk you need to lift heavy) but not at the price of blowing out my back or knees...

What a great and inspiring story! Keep up the good work!