Sunta

He pulls people out of Africa, even in the face of death and danger to everything they own. There are Asians who have risked their lives to share even one page of the Bible with other believers. Former Islamists sacrifice all they've ever known in order to follow Jesus Christ. This is happening all over the world and has been since the time of Jesus Christ. Well actually, it's missionaries that pull people out of where they live, and the faith they believe in, and convince them by sometimes unscrupulous means, to follow Christianity. Thank you everyone for your heartfelt responses. It would be great, though, if someone would address my question about the bible being copied in certain parts, from earlier works. I liked Tired Old Man's answer about maybe it's one God that goes by different names. Actually, I believe in a higher power (God if you want to call it that) and that different religions are manifestations/expressions of that higher power. Therefor, "Jesus" is God as much as Buddah, Krishna, you, or me. Maybe he was someone who found the God-like qualities within himself. But anyone can do that. Leatha insinuated that I am the only one who believes that Jesus is not the one "true" God, and that 2 billion people can't be wrong. However, if one adds up the people in the world who do not believe in Jesus, the number far outweighs 2 billion! So now who's right going by that logic?

Wasn't my answer good enough Actually your answer was the closest thing I've had to a reasonably intelligent thought regarding this issue!

Do you know anyone who still believes that the previous 'Gods' existed or were in fact Gods at all? Well, no, because most of them were ancient Egyptians, Greeks, and Romans. Their religions got handed down and handed down and morphed and copied over time, to evolve into the Jesus myth we have around today. All we have to do is look around the world to see similar ancient religions that morphed and were copied over time to evolve into Allah, Krishna, etc and so forth. Just by nature of people believing in these other Gods as passionately as some believe in Jesus, it renders all of the Gods impossible to proven as the "right" one. If you'd been born in the mid-East, chances are really good you would believe in Allah, and not Jesus. Much of it has to do with Geography. Surely you must realize that Muslims believe they are right and Christians have it all wrong. So, don't you see how that creates a bit of a problem in establishing which religion is "true"? You can't give me an answer as to why bible stories appear to plagiarized from earlier texts, so instead, you choose to say I'm blaspheming in order to divert attention from the question at hand. Have you actually read the "Egyptian Book of the Dead" or any translation of ancient texts with regard to religion? I have! And they are very, very, very simliar, in some cases identical, to stories in the bible. My logic tells me that the bible is a copy of ideas, themes, and stories from many ealier writings. Oh sure, if I want to discount "intellect" then I find it super easy to believe in Jesus. However, I value my intellect very much. Without intellect, there is no logic, no reason, and no thought.

I have made a prayerful decision to leave this thread As soon as the big questions arise, the Christians run and hide. I've never had an answer yet. It's awfully convenient to run away and just say "you're evil!" instead of facing the tough questions head-on and providing an intelligent and logical answer. I guess I'll keep waiting and wondering why Jesus is a carbon copy of previous, much older gods...

No one has addressed my concern about the many other gods who were written about thousands of years before Jesus, who did and said things identical to Jesus. Why is it that no one will answer that concern? I am not looking for the answer: "people made it up to discredit Christianity", because I have read translations of Egyptian hieroglyphics that are identical to stories depicted in the bible. So, can someone please explain why these stories had been previously written?

If I thought for a second that you were serious and that it would not be the source of more mocking I would give you a detailed, intelligent answer to every one of your inquires. I am 100% serious. What gave you the impression I'm not being serious? I seriously believe every word I have set forth. I have not mocked, but have seriously questioned. Why are serious, well-thought out questions called "mockery"? I don't really understand that. It is so convenient for people to say "I've researched it and I know it's accurate". Well, then why not put forth the evidence? No one ever speaks to the stories of previous Gods who did the exact same things as Jesus did. No one ever answers. All they say is "well, it all comes down to faith." This leads me to believe that in fact, there is no "research" into earlier religions, because no one has an answer as to why earlier religions had very similar (in some cases identical) Gods and stories as Jesus. What is the explanation about this?

Serious discussion about the faith is not taken kindly here. Ok, let us have a serious discussion on faith. I have asked this question before but have never gotten an answer. So maybe you can answer me Ron. Why do you believe in Jesus and not in, say... Horus? Why in Jesus and not in any of the other Greek or Roman Gods? Why in Jesus and not in Allah? Do you realize that had you been born in a different place, you would believe in a different God? I submit to you that the bible is a book, a story, a fable. Written over thousands of years and based almost exclusively on a compilation of previous myths and stories. What makes the bible different from any other religious text that exists besides the fact that someone at some point told you that the bible is the "right" book? Jesus did not come down to earth. He did not raise people from the dead. People just can't do that. He didn't do it, Horus didn't do it, and Dionysus didn't do it, because they are all fictional characters (with extreme similarities). Similarly, Jesus did not himself rise from the dead, and neither did Horus or Dionysus (though they are all life-death-rebirth deities). Jesus did not walk on Water, and neither did Horus (though it was said that he did!) because they are fictional characters. The similarities between the mythological character of Jesus and the mythological characters of Horus and Dionysus are astounding. This alone casts more than reasonable doubt on Jesus. I submit to you that belief in Jesus as a real, living figure as described in the bible makes as much logical sense as believing in Mithra, Tammuz, or Krishna as a real figure. Perhaps a man named Jesus did live at some point, and did make people believe that he performed miracles, but if he did live, he was no more the son of God than David Blain is when he walks on water. The reason why people believe it is because they have been told to believe it, just as people who believed in these other Gods had been told to believe in them. It is nice, and it is convenient, to have a "way out" when one feels life's burdens are too difficult to bear. It is nice and convenient to soften to fear of mortality with a belief in heaven. It is wonderful to reliquish personal responsibility for "sin" by believing that there was someone else who already took responsibility for those sins, and that everything is forgiven if you believe in that person. I can understand the joyful exuberation one must feel when they are "saved", because it completely lifts them up from the reality of life, removes the fear of death, and makes them feel great about themselves. Unfortunately, it is magical thinking. It would be wonderful if it were true, but it is not true. There was no Jesus as described in the bible, except in fiction. Fiction that was compiled, changed, and manipulated for political gain over thousands of years. When people who share my views ask for proof, we get the same old word back as an answer "faith". Well, honestly, that just does not make any sense. It is no different from a child's faith in Santa Clause I'm sorry to say. I'm tired of pandering to Christians when they push their beliefs on me. They are the ones who don't want the serious discussion about faith, because truly serious discussion and thought and logic all point extremely quickly to the fact that it's all just not true. That's why the discussion always gets shuts down with a one-word answer of "faith". If you really think about it, if you really use your head, you will see that the things Jesus did in the bible are impossible. They can't happen. They didn't happen. If you compare, side by side, the story of Jesus and the stories of Gods that came before him, you will see, with astounding clarity, amazing similarities. If you reach down in your heart, I think you'll find that somewhere inside there must be a part of you that knows that people can not perform tasks such as walking on water or raising folks from the dead. It is a great and exciting story, but unfortunately it is just a story.

To say that same sex marriage affects you is wrong. To say that it offends your Christian beliefs and your sense of morality may be true, but it has nothing absolutely to do with infringing on your rights or taking away your freedom. Banning same sex marriage is taking away (some) Americans' freedoms. It is wrong. You probably have a good idea how I feel about your intervention in a woman's right to choose. Keep your Christian beliefs out of my way. If you respect that this is a free country and that your Christian beliefs have nothing to do with me, you and I will get along fine. Otherwise, to me you're no different than a Muslim extremist telling me that I have to pray to Allah and cover my body from head to toe. Yes. Yes yes.

I had a friend at my last job who was gay and found out later had AIDS. He knew my stance and I knew his and we got along fine. In fact, we he had a spell of sickness and was off work for a period, myself and some co-workers bought graceries and visited him at home. I say that not to pat myself on the back, but to say it is possible to let your beleifs be known and not hate or shun people. It is inspiring to see someone who is a Christian and also actually embodies what Christian principals are really all about: Kindness, love, acceptance, and doing good works. I wish more Christians would follow your example!

As I have mentioned, I am not an atheist. I believe in a higher power that resides beyond us but also dwells within us. Whatever anyone wants to call that higher power is fine by me (Jesus, Buddah, Allah etc.), as long as they don't use their belief to oppress other people. The issue I have with fundamentalist Christians as a group, is that they actively participate in making laws based on the bible, that oppress me, and that have stopped me from living my life in the way that I should have lived it. The biggest example I can give of this is the fact that Gay marriage is not legal. The reason it's not legal is based on Christianity. Christianity is a belief system I don't share, and since in this country we are supposed to have seperation of church and state, I find it appalling that my life has been altered based on a belief that I know in my heart is a myth. No one can ever know the pain I live with every day. Because being Gay was much less accepted 18 years ago (when I met my husband), I followed the heterosexual path and got married. I love my husband dearly, but in reality I should have ended up with a woman. I do partially blame Christianity for contributing to the lack of acceptance that still pervades our society. I go to work every day with my bosses, two women who have been together for 15 years. They have the most beautiful baby in the world. The fact that they are not allowed to get married breaks my heart every single day. Yes, I do have rage and anger against fundamentalist Christians. I admit that. I do blame them for the death of Matthew Shepard, and I blame them for the thousands of Gay teens that commit suicide. I will never stop blaming them for preaching hate and intolerance of Gay people. Never. I have no idea if anyone here shares my views, or if they have other deeply personal reasons for being angry at fundamentalist Christians, but that's where I'm coming from. It is difficult, almost impossible, to remain polite to people who are fundamentalist Christians because of my deeply personal life experience.

My mother in law told my husband, right after meeting me, that "she talks too much". After he told her we were getting married, she said she would disown him (for marrying a non-Jew). Can anyone top that?

We need Carlene on this thread.

What are the duties of a Pastafarian, anyway? One of the most important duties of a Pastafarian is to get our message into public schools. We believe that the fact that the Flying Spaghetti Monster created the universe should be taught along with evolution.

I have shared my rules for avoiding PBing on other threads, but I will also post them here. Since following these rules, I have gone from PBing nearly every week, to PBing one time in almost three months: 1. liquids only for Breakfast (protein shake which includes 100% of essential Vitamins and minerals) 2. Soft/easy to eat food for lunch: chili, cheese, Soup, Beans, cottage cheese, yogurt, tuna salad, anything mushy 3. Wine before dinner, 1-2 glasses every night (then normal dinner). 4. If I am ravenous, absolutely no solid food, but take a Protein shake or drink wine before eating. Since following these, my PB situation has improved very dramatically. In fact, the one time in nearly three months I did PB, it was because I did not follow rule #4. As long as I follow the rules, I am golden. I hate Pbing more than anything, and am so grateful to have found a protocal that works for me.

I think the part that caught me was you stating that only people who think life is too scary to live without something to beleive in beleive in God. To imply that people with a religious faith (of any faith) only believe because they are not well adjusted people is very narrow-minded. All I am asking, and remember I am against how Ron is coming across on this thread, is that you don't act the same way he does. Just asking for respect. I feel I am a very well rounded person. Thanks. Gosh, I'm sorry how it came off. I did not mean to imply that any people who believe in any religion are not well-rounded. Certainly there are very well-rounded, intelligent, wonderful people who believe in God. Actually, I am not an atheist. I believe in a higher power other than, but also within, ourselves. I was referring more to people who are fundamentalists. It is fundamentalists who do start most of the wars throughout history. When I said "life is too scary to not believe in something" I meant that these "Gods" who cropped up through history are, in my opinion, myths used to explain the unexplainable. I don't think "God" ever came down to earth or was/is ever embodied in a specific person, and certainly I don't believe that any one myth has any more merit than any other (Jesus vs. Allah for example). But I did not mean to say that everyone who believes in something is not well-rounded, so I'm sorry if that's how it appeared.

That statement is as insensative and hurtful and narrowminded as the things Ron has been saying. Listen, I'm just stating matter-of-factly what I believe to be true, in my heart. I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings or try to stop people from freely worshipping and believing what they want. However it does not change my feeling that Jesus is mythology, and that belief in him or other Gods sprang up because the idea that there is nothing beyond the here and now, is just too scary for human beings to cope with. The fact of the matter is, and the truth of the matter is, that it is people of religion who start wars over their religion. I'm sorry if the truth hurts, but it is still the truth.

Or could it be that those who oppose the truth are the sourse of the hatred and rebellion against God? By "the Truth" are you referring to the mythological figure of Jesus? I never saw an atheist start a war against God. Have you? However I have seen plenty of wars started in the name of different mythological figures. In fact, that's how the majority of wars start. I can't even imagine atheists starting a war to try to stop people from worshipping whatever God they want. It's the people who cling to the belief in a mythological figure (because life is too scary without something to believe in) who start the wars.

And lo! His noodly juice is marinara sauce and His meat is hot Italian sausage and meat balls. And the words al dente shall be spoken by all of ye who dine here. ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!

Does anyone else find it fascinating that this thread is a microcosm of how religion/God has been the root cause of wars throughout history? Something that is supposed to be about peace and love...how does it always seem to cause fighting and screaming, hatred, and anger? Why is that? Could it be that the people who are most drawn to any kind of fundamentalism are also the people who are most prone to instability and craziness?

As you know, South Park makes fun of many religions, and pastafarianism/Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is no exception. It's outrageous that anyone would even question the absolute truth of FSM, and to do so is blasphemy!!! Blasphemy I say! I am here to spread the living WORD of FSM and to warn all who don't believe that they are on the WRONG PATH!!! It's up to YOU to ACCEPT of REJECT FSM. Find out for yourself! Have you done you homework? Or are you simply dismissing FSM out of hand without doing your research???

If you don't believe in the church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, you will be damned!!! Through his noodly appendage, ALL things are possible! I am here to SPREAD THE WORD of his noodly goodness! EXCERPT from the Church Website: We have evidence that a Flying Spaghetti Monster created the universe. None of us, of course, were around to see it, but we have written accounts of it. We have several lengthy volumes explaining all details of His power. Also, you may be surprised to hear that there are over 10 million of us, and growing. We tend to be very secretive, as many people claim our beliefs are not substantiated by observable evidence. What these people don’t understand is that He built the world to make us think the earth is older than it really is. For example, a scientist may perform a carbon-dating process on an artifact. He finds that approximately 75% of the Carbon-14 has decayed by electron emission to Nitrogen-14, and infers that this artifact is approximately 10,000 years old, as the half-life of Carbon-14 appears to be 5,730 years. But what our scientist does not realize is that every time he makes a measurement, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is there changing the results with His Noodly Appendage. We have numerous texts that describe in detail how this can be possible and the reasons why He does this. He is of course invisible and can pass through normal matter with ease. ... You may be interested to know that global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters are a direct effect of the shrinking numbers of Pirates since the 1800s. For your interest, I have included a graph of the approximate number of pirates versus the average global temperature over the last 200 years. As you can see, there is a statistically significant inverse relationship between pirates and global temperature.

WO! I had no idea what this thread was all about! I feel remiss in not coming on sooner to state my opinion, cause I know how everyone must miss me soooooo much when I'm not around! Well, all I have to say is: God sure does cause alot of fights, doesn't he?

I have to add eating when I am very hungry. It's an almost 100% promise of a PB for me. I don't know if it's from eating too fast, or what, but it feels like my stomach just clamps down and shuts when I am ravenous. Since I started adopting this rule and others (liquids in the morning, wine before dinner) I went from having two PB's almost every week to having one PB in two months!

77 pounds down. Can you see a difference?

The number one reason I chose the band was because of the low mortality rate. Number 2 was that it is reversible should major complications arise. Had the bypass had the exact same safety profile, I would have had it instead. But the bypass has a much, much worse safety profile than the band, both during the operation and afterwards. There is another option I might have gone with had I known about it at the time of my decision: the vertical sleeve. I just read an article that says it actually has a similar saftey profile as the band. If I ever lose my band I would consider it.