Cleo's Mom

That's because the rich have been getting a free ride for too long. It's time to tax them and then tax them some more. The millionaires and billionaires in this country don't need a tax cut or a 5th home (I think mccain has 8 but I could be wrong). They need to pay more because the middle class is paying for them. Very wrong. But trust the conservatives to defend the rich.

All of those things that you planned could go up in smoke in a minute. Your husband's pension plan could be lost if where he works goes out of business or files for bankruptcy. The insurance company (like AIG) could have sold you a policy that they don't have money to back up (they actually did this). The 401k and stocks could (and did) tank. You could find yourself with no renters due to the economy. The only think guaranteed is your savings in the bank and that's because it's guaranteed by the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. So, quit being so smug. Just like a neocon. Your plans could fall apart like so many american's.

LeighaMason, thank you for that heartwarming and poignant story about your grandfather. We've all seen the pictures of his generation with their sooty faces as they mined coal, or their sledge hammers as they built railroads, or their sweat soaked clothes as they made steel. These people were the ones who built our nation and they were democrats and FDR didn't forget about them and he promised to help them and he did and thus formed the middle class that the republicans are out to destroy.

It's what I, congress, the CBO and those paying for it know.

I absolutely will not stop doing it. You can't negate the impact of the 8 years of bush's failed policies - to use that slogan from the fire/water damage company - like it never even happened. It happened all right and the impact of bush's failed policies is still impacting us today. Put your head in the sand if you must, but I will continue to post the facts.

That was exactly my point. All the things you stated are what drives our economy and that is my business and everyone's business because it affects all of us.

Then the republican party is in big trouble because they sure haven't shown much in the way or morals or character lately.

Originally Posted by Cleo's Mom Pattygreen - you often say that you have no control over other's behavior and that everyone is a sinner and that each person has their own moral code that you, again, have no control over. Then you say the reason to vote for republicans is that they are more moral and are anti-abortion and anti-gay rights. So, I guess it is your belief that the republicans can force people to be more moral by enacting laws against those things? No, no one can force anything. Here's a an example that I can share from my own family. My daughter has grown up in a home with very happily married parents who do not even mention divorce as an option to problems in marriage. Love is a decision we make. We taught her that she should be very sure of who she is going to marry because marriage is meant to be for life. (exceptions are made for unfaithfulness) She grew up with this example. Most all of her family members, aunts, uncles, grandparents (over 60 years married), etc. are life time married people. This is very good, for God hates divorce. Her boyfriend of 4 years, OTOH, came from divorced parents and family members that have all been divorced once or twice. He is afraid to make the marriage committment because he fears that divorce is inevitable once you get married and he loves my daughter and doesn't want to lose her. See how allowing divorce can screw up a kid? When society makes laws that are immoral, people get hurt by them. I agree that divorce screws up kids, but I don't think it should be illegal. Marriage is recognized by the state and it can be dissolved. I believe abuse in a marriage, along with infidelity, is a reason for divorce. Parents make rules for their children for their own protection. Would you agree? God does also. The moral rules he sets for us as a standard of living are for our own good. They protect us and others form hurt, harm, heartbreak, etc. Just because society doesn't always follow the moral laws, doesn't mean we should not make them. If abortion were illegal, would you not have one because it is illegal or because it's immoral to you? Because it's immoral to you. So if it's immoral to someone, how can having it be legal change that? If each person is responsible for his/her moral conduct? Should we then make stealing legal? because it's immoral, too. People who have a moral sense don't steal, lie, or murder only because there are laws against those things. They don't do them because they're wrong. You want to legislate morality not because you think it will change one's morals (it won't) but for the punishment end of it. That's what I have been saying on all my posts. That's what you are interested in. Not the behavior, but the punishment. If someone is gay, do you think they will stop being gay because the law says they can't marry? If someone does drugs, do you think they will stop doing drugs because the law says they can't? No. So, should we make drugs legal? Just because some will not follow the moral laws, doesn't mean we should not make them. The laws are meant to punish, not deter. As I have said before, that's what it's about for you. So how does voting for a republican because they are anti-abortion and anti-gay change anything for people about getting jobs, getting a mortgage, putting your kids through college, etc..? The things that matter the most to the majority of americans?

Fiscal Year 2009 U.S. Federal Spending - Cash or Budget Basis. Fiscal Year 2009 U.S. Federal Receipts. Just look at the small amount corporate income taxes make up as a part of our total receipts. Also, look at where the money is spent - all those programs are mandated - social security, medicare, medicaid and other mandated programs. So what brave teabagger is going to step up and say he'll cut those programs? I want to hear them say HOW they are going to do it. Come on now, be brave - if you want to cut spending, you can see from the chart where to do it. So step right up to the microphone you teabagging phonies and declare that you will reduce social security, medicare and medicaid by 50%. Say it loud and say it often. Tell people that's what needs to be done to reduce our spending. And then let's sit back and see if they get elected. We all know the answer to that. None of them are brave enough to say any of that. Phonies & hypocrites - all of them.:thumbup:

I didn't ask who caused it, I asked why hasn't it been "fixed" by the republicans? When they had all the power why didn't they make a smaller government, reduce spending, reduce the deficit, cut programs, ad infinitum, ad nauseum? Can you answer that? Because if you can't they why would you believe any of the tea party candidates who say THEY can? What makes them any different? It's not about being different. It's about making promises that you can't keep. Like telling the people that there would be no more crazy spending and that everything he okays will have the peoples okay and will be published for every eye to see (transparency)and that pork spending will be eliminated, and then not keeping ONE bit of his Word. The list of waste is below and He has NOT stopped ANY of it!!!!! Again, I ask you - why didn't the republicans, when they had the power, create a smaller government, cut the deficit, reduce spending and make program cuts? This is the agenda they and the teabaggers are running on. Are they going to be able to keep these promises? Because so far, the conservative republicans haven't been able to do any of this during any of the times they held all the power in the last 50 years, most recently under bush. So, if we're talking about keeping promises, why didn't the republicans when THEY had the chance? They're big talkers now. They would do this differently and that differently - well they had their chance for 8 years and they royally effed up this country. It's going to take awhile to clean up, but progress is being made.

Healthcare is paid for, unlike bush's policies that took us from a surplus to a deficit - a fact that you keep ignoring. And I know, there were never any payments to the UN, or pork barrel project or wasteful spending under bush. It all started under Pres. Obama. Oh, wait, it didn't - it just started to be criticized under Pres. Obama. :thumbup:

WOW!! What hypocrisy!!! :thumbup: You have called me a racist a number of times. But I guess since a conservative did it - it doesn't count. That's the general consenses among the elected republicans - if they did something wrong it doesn't count or matter, it's only when the current democratic administration does it that it matters. That's my first mantra: without hypocrisy the republicans would have nothing.

And whose Chinese communist a$$ did bush kiss to fund the unnecessary Iraqi war? Just think of how that money could have been used to help our economy here at home and create jobs instead of killing 4000 soldiers. Or not borrowed at all and help reduce the debt. It doesn't matter any more, that's already been done. Two wrongs don't make a right. Just because Bush didn't do what was right doesn't make it okay for Obama to follow in his footsteps. I am sick and tired of hearing about what Bush did from you. It's like a little kid who does wrong and when questioned by his mom says, "but, jeffy did it too, he did even worse than me." (whine) Obama is doing his own share of spending, and it is much more than any president we have ever had!!!! It doesn't matter anymore? :thumbup: This is typical conservative illogical thinking. Of course it matters because it is a BIG part of the current deficit that you neocons keep yapping about. And to make matter worse, it was totally unnecessary. Geez.

Where did I say that we should "tell" people who or what to value? I said that who and what they value is what drives the economy and is very telling about the things people find important. And that is MY business.

When I see these old, stooped over people bagging groceries I look at them and think "that's the republican's retirement plan for the rest of us".

Look at the statistics in pattygreen's home state. Wow! That median salary is huge!! And the median price of a home - again - wow! They can and should pay their teachers what they do because they are getting a lot of bang for their buck. Teaching salary summary page for the state of Connecticut Salary range: $40,973 - $90,998 Average teacher salary: $58,688 Average beginning teacher salary: $40,657 Median household income: $77,452.20 Median house price: $254,700 Per-Pupil Spending: $10,001 Cents spent on benefits for every dollar paid as salary: 27.1¢ Cost of living calculator Cost of living analysis Grade: Summary: Connecticut is one of the richest states in US with casinos growing into massive entertainment facilities annually bringing in millions of visitors and kept money pumping in to the coffers of the government. The impact of the gaming industry created employment, on time response to teacher’s salary hike and health care. It brings less than $430 million each year to Connecticut’s general fund. The state’s high teacher’s salary scale made them constantly ranked among the top ten in the nation’s overall survey on teaching salaries for years. Connecticut was even named as the smartest state by private research and publishing group Morgan Quitno Press being observed as having the strictest requirements for teachers yet able to provide the highest salary. They are the envy of the nation having been included in the top ranked women’s college basketball program and schools. Connecticut wisely uses local education foundation to improve public education. Local citizens take their part in improving education in their area by forming nonprofit organizations who aims to create fundraising programs to support local schools. The state’s utilization of human resources has put them to an edge with other states. Local communities had established rapport with school boards and school administration in an aggressive pursuit to community development. The raise in teachers salaries are also being negotiated between the school board and teachers representatives. Connecticut teachers’ proposals for classroom materials are also being answered by their donors through the website DonorsChoose.org run by a nonprofit organization whose mission is to match teachers through the site with philanthropist who want to get involve simply by donating in kind. Connecticut’s economy depends on the teaching effectiveness of their public schools and they were right on the track with their organization and community building to achieve the demands of the business world from their graduates. Looks like the teachers are doing a great job and have the right to expect to be justly compensated.

We don't believe the world is only 10,000 years old We don't believe that Adam & Eve rode dinosaurs, either.

From: Robert Reich, former Secretary of Labor,now a professor at Berkeley. June 4, 2010 Why are we having such a hard time getting free of the Great Recession? Because consumers, who constitute 70 percent of the economy, don't have the dough. They can't any longer treat their homes as ATMs, as they did before the Great Recession. Businesses won't rehire if there's not enough demand for their goods and services. The only reason the economy isn't in a double-dip recession already is because of three temporary boosts: the federal stimulus (of which 75 percent has been spent), near-zero interest rates (which can't continue much longer without igniting speculative bubbles), and replacements (consumers have had to replace worn-out cars and appliances, and businesses had to replace worn-down inventories). Oh, and, yes, all those Census workers (who will be out on their ears in a month or so). But all these boosts will end soon. Then we're in the dip. Retail sales are already down. So what's the answer? In the short term, more stimulus -- especially extended unemployment benefits and aid to state and local governments that are whacking schools and social services because they can't run deficits. But the deficit crazies in the Senate,(they're not just in the Senate, they're the teabaggers and those who support them) who can't seem to differentiate between short-term stimulus (necessary) and long-term debt (bad) last week shot it down. In the longer term, we need a new New Deal that will bolster America's floundering middle class. Expand the Earned Income Tax Credit and extend it up through the middle class. Finance that extension through higher marginal income taxes on the wealthy, who have never had it so good. Boy, that's for sure! It's about time for them to start paying their fair share and stop living off the middle class.

Pattygreen - you often say that you have no control over other's behavior and that everyone is a sinner and that each person has their own moral code that you, again, have no control over. Then you say the reason to vote for republicans is that they are more moral and are anti-abortion and anti-gay rights. So, I guess it is your belief that the republicans can force people to be more moral by enacting laws against those things? If abortion were illegal, would you not have one because it is illegal or because it's immoral to you? Because it's immoral to you. So if it's immoral to someone, how can having it be legal change that? If each person is responsible for his/her moral conduct? If someone is gay, do you think they will stop being gay because the law says they can't marry? So how does voting for a republican because they are anti-abortion and anti-gay change anything for people about getting jobs, getting a mortgage, putting your kids through college, etc..? The things that matter the most to the majority of americans?

What and who we value as a society is everyone's business because it is what drives the economy. :tt2:

YOU make a stupid statement like that -that you now cannot support and you call me dense? The problem is not that you think I'm dense, which I'm not, the problem is that I never let you get away with your bulls**t.

And when your federal taxes were collected under bush and then distributed to the wealthy - wasn't that spreading the wealth around? I can see how you could be confused. :thumbup: The democrats believe a woman and her doctor are in the best position to make a decision about her body, not the government, and that if marriage confers benefits to a married man and women then a gay couple should have the same right to have those marriage benefits. Nothing crazy or kooky about either one of these.

What programs that Obama is enacting now? Healthcare is paid for. The stimulus, as I showed, has not contributed to the deficit to nearly the degree that bush's programs have, and why should Pres. Obama have his hands tied because of bush's failed policies? And please don't cut and paste some conservative list. What big spending is he doing? He has to continue the spending on bush's policies, we've been over that. He has to fund SS, medicare and medicaid and defense. Those are the big ticket items that take up the majority of the federal budget. So, exactly what are all these VERY COSTLY (not some little dumb ass programs from some list you find) NEW -and the keyword here is NEW programs has Pres. Obama started? COSTLY AND NEW?

Just another good ol' racist southern boy: 'Raghead' remark causes latest flap in SC gov race By SEANNA ADCOX, AP COLUMBIA, S.C. — A GOP lawmaker hoping to be the state's first female governor is getting publicity for all the wrong reasons. First a political blogger said he and Rep. Nikki Haley had an inappropriate physical relationship when he worked for her in 2007. Then a lobbyist said he had a one-night stand with her in a Salt Lake City hotel room during a school choice conference. On Thursday, state Sen. Jake Knotts used an ethnic slur to refer to Haley, whose parents immigrated from India. "We've got a raghead in Washington, we don't need a raghead in the Statehouse," Knotts said on an Internet political talk show. He later apologized, saying the remarks were meant as a joke. In one way this gives me some pleasure to know how completely bent out of shape and outraged these neanderthal, knuckle-dragging racists are about Obama being our president. They've had it their way for too long.