Tired_Old_Man

Very good post. But let me say one thing: "Many of the people who are most annoyed at Ron are also Christians who like you (I would assume) disagree with style not content."

Ron has a right to post these topics in the Rant & Rave section.

But the scientists who espouse evolution have no financial stake in evolution, while the scientists who espouse creationism or intelligent design are often paid by Christian Right organizations that need money from the poor box to grow and need to convince people that the Bible is literal to get them to contribute.

Maybe if BuSh had listened to his Cabinet level expert on Terrorism, Richard Clark, and maybe if BuSh had paid attention to the CIA briefing paper of August 6, 2001 which warned that Al-Quiada was planning on hijacking US airliners, 911 would not have happened, but BuSh had decided (the decider that he is) that he was going to take out Hussein as soon as an excuse arose.

Isn't that what Hanz said to Shultz when the the Concentration camps were opened?

I don't get mad, I can get angry, but I have not even done that. How is these for "figures of speech"? "only an ignorant person" would not see that. "Any jerk could see that" "Anyone with a brain would know that" If I used them, I wouldn't be calling anyone a name, but it would not be right. "No brainer" means it doesn't take any brains to see (agree with) that. There is not much difference between “No Brainer” and the "figures of speech" that I wrote above. How about all of us looking a little deeper into what they say and trying to be straight forward? I PLEDGE NOT TO BE SCARCASTIC OR USE DOUBLE ANTANDRE TO ANY MEMBER HERE AT LPT. Can we all agree to try to abide by that pledge? These topics stimulate the emotions as much as the mind, so let's try to keep it intellectual And yes, I have erred in some of my postings. If I can be a big enough person to admit that, there is no reason that all of us can not be big enough to try to behave. Hey, the reason we are at LBT is because we are big. Right?

Under Clinton, the USA went 7 years and 11 months after the attack on the WTC without any more attacks on US soil. It went 8 years and 8 months before 911 without any more attacks on US soil. And that was without any Patriot acts or NSA violations of our rights, or arresting people without charges, etc. BuSh has a ways to go before he reaches 7 years and 11 months with no attacks and even though I will be praying that that number is surpassed, no one should be boasting just yet.

I was not asking you the first three questions. I was wondering if the test would include those questions. The last question was addressed to anyone who wanted to reply. About me getting upset. Unless you have planted a web-camera in my home, you do not know if I am smiling or crying, or anywhere in between.

Which equates into the USA becoming a theocracy. IMHO

A Rose by any name...

Let's see. How can I get people to be honest about their choice. I can debate everyone who picks one choice and praise everyone who picks the other. If that doesn't guarantee an unbiased, yes even a FAIR AND BALANCED poll, nothing will.

If a minister preaches that abortion is wrong and that God condemns abortion, and there is an election two days later, if the parishioners are too lazy to see who is pro-life and who is pro-choice, that can not be blamed on suppression of freedom of speech. For a minister to tell his congregation that a vote for Kerry is a vote for Satan goes way past the law. For a minister to tell a congregation that a vote for Kerry is a vote for Satan is fine, but by taking a tax exemption, he is asking Kerry supporters to help his church financially while that church tries to defeat Kerry. My minister speaks out about injustice (as he sees it) and quotes scripture to make his point. He however was honest enough to give up his tax exemption. I and all the other members of my congregation do not take a tax deduction for our contributions.

Right on, Sister!:confused:

I guess then, there is more politicking from the pulpit than some want to admit.:confused: Thank You!

I agree, but there is to way to tell George Steinbrenner that he can not pay his shortstop $25,000,000 per year for 10 years. But we can tax that shortstop and Steinbrenner so that there is money for doing what both you and I want. I never said to go back to 90%, even though people were still becoming rich. A flat tax with no deductions (or loopholes as you call them) can never work because by the constitution corporations are considered people and a flat tax with no deductions would close down every business in the country. Plus it will never pass congress.

To believe that there is a God and to believe that evolution happened for a reason and through the process of feedback. You should not limit choice.

Does that include knowing that BuSh is not King George? And that there are three separate and equal branches of government? And that at least one of those branches has said that church and state must be kept separate? Should we amend the the US Constitution to make the USA a Theocracy?

You implied that I have no brains when you stated that your view was a "no brainer". Anyone who differs would therefor have no brains. It is ok for a minister to speak against the act of abortion, but once he starts naming politicians, it is no longer religion it is politics. When a church names politicians, they do not forfeit their right to free speech, they forfeit their right to have the tax benefits of being a church. The people in the Milgram experiment were not idiots either, but they still killed their fair share of ringers. How do you account for White Supremacy groups being led by ministers? How do you account for Jerry Falwell never talking about the Beatitudes when he talks of Christian values on secular TV shows? Yes it can happen in any group in theory, but Atheists and Liberals are not as prone to the manipulation of authority figures because when they become prone to them, they stop being Atheists and Liberals. Fundamentalists of any breeding tend to be followers of doctrine almost by definition. And the doctrine is that of authority figures, human or book.

I had a crush on Princess Summer Fall Winter Spring.:confused:

WOW Tired OLD Man!!! -- Shouldn't you be posting your comments on a White Supremacist website instead of one for WLS patients! IT has to be hard being so angry all the time!! Satire and Sarcasm!! I am small minded. My brain fits in my hat-size 7 head. And I lean quite far to the left. Almost enough to make up for Rush, Sean and Billy O (AKA: the FOX Noise team).

Yesterday, BuSh went to the stock exchange to make a speech saying that the economy is great and that he doesn't get enough credit for the great economy. Yes, the economy is great if you are a wall street banker or Corporation executive, but not for the workers. BuSh actually complained about the disparity in pay between workers and Corporation executive and said that we (meaning the government) needs to do something about it. HOW ABOUT A GRADUATED INCOME TAX WITH MORE BRACKETS? That has worked in the past. When I was a child in 1950's the economy was great, millionaires were being made by the barrel and the maximum tax bracket was 90%. Today the maximum tax bracket is 35%. Back then there was either 6 or 8 brackets, today there are three. BuSh wants the Democrats in congress to raise taxes, so he can veto it and then the Republican candidates for congress in 2008 can point fingers at the "Tax and Spend Liberals". God forbid that Billionaires and people who make those obscene incomes might have to pay more and then some of that money could be used for nursing homes and raising the salaries of nurses, and maybe some for education.

Well, I guess then, I have no brains. That is why people have complained about your style. You imply that to disagree with you, shows proof of inferiority. It is ok for a minister to condemn abortion, but not to say to vote for Mr. A instead of Mr. B. The minister has too much power and is too much of a authority figure, and as I mentioned in a different thread, people are too easily swayed by authority figures as proved by the "Milgram Experiment". In the "Milgram Experiment" subjects killed other people when the authority figure said that it was ok. Of course, no one died because it was rigged, but the subject pressed the switch which would have killed if it was not rigged. The people of Germany tortured and killed innocent people because their authority figures said it was right. Ministers might not be that evil, but when one minister or group of ministers wants to do things that are evil and they claim it is God's will, then people will respond with evil deeds. It has happened with Muslim terrorists. It has happened with White Supremacy groups in the USA, UK and Germany. It can happen with Evangelical Christians or to Jewish people who belong to fanatical groups.

I can't play for a while. My minister is bringing his car over to my house in a few minutes so that I can try to fix it for him. Helping each other is the Christian thing to do IMHO. I'll post again later.

My wife and I have a friend of over 20. We were neighbors in Brooklyn before we moved to Florida 3 years ago and I was her co-worker when we met in 1984. She also moved to Florida about 5 years ago and now lives 100 miles from us. She is a 45 year old Black woman who goes to a Protestant church. Her sister lives within 5 miles of her and also attends the same church along with many of their friends As you may or may not know, Black women voted over 95% in the last two presidential elections for the Democratic candidate and Blacks in general were about 80%. On the Sunday before the 2004 BuSh-Kerry election, their minister had a guest minister give the sermon. That minister told the congregation that a vote for Kerry is a vote for Satan because of Kerry's pro-choice, pro-Gay union stance. It would have been ok to talk about the immorality of abortion and of gay sexual activity, but it was not ok to mention either Kerry or BuSh by name or to suggest that a sermon is a voting instruction. Both our friend and her sister have been life long Democrats, but the sister voted for BuSh. Our friend did the right thing. The sisters still debate their choices to this day. Many of the congregation voted for BuSh based on the sermon. My minister talks about politics all the time, but our whole congregation, 100% unanimous has voted for the church to not take a IRS deduction and we are therefor allowed to discuss these things. Money is regulation. Religion should not be regulated by the government, but religion should not regulation the government either. If we wanted a tax deduction for our weekly contributions, we can't be politically active. If my minister wanted to avoid tax, he could stop talking from the pulpit about politics. It is ironic that the extra tax we pay to be politically active helps to finance the wars that we speak against. But at least we are honest about it.

Germany has ordered the arrest of 13 suspected CIA agents over the alleged kidnapping of one of its citizens.