jewelwithin

A lot of good points here that I won't repeat. I just wanted to let you know that I, too, average about 1,100-1,200 calories per day. I track everything I eat on 411fit.com and the site calculates an average. I am doing vigorous cardio (boot camp) 4-5 times/week, so I am losing. Like BlackBerry, I can't go more than 3-4 hours without eating. On the rare occasion that I do it's scheduling craziness. And then I have to watch when I do eat because I'm so hungry I want to eat fast, which only serves to give me a bad belly ache. What I've learned to do during those occasions is to start by eating something that my tummy will tolerate if I eat a little quicker just to get rid of the stomach pangs -- for me it's yogurt or an unjury Protein drink/broth. Then in an hour or two I can eat something "solid" slowly the way I know I need to. Also, because the 1,100-1,200 is an average, that means I do have the occasional day when I eat only 700-900 and those when I eat more like 1,300-1,400. I find that my hunger evens out, i.e., if I happen to have a low-cal day I tend to be hungrier the next day, and visa versa.

Good point MissDiva! I have sort of modified own my own after reading lots of posts and doing other research online, but checking in first with my doc prob would have been a wiser approach!

Peacequeen -- my surg date was right about the same time as you (12/29), and I have had the same experience. It was either major nausea or bad pain -- or both. I have med from my doc (ondansetron) for nausea, which I have used at times 2-3 times/day. That and laying down for 30-60 minutes was all I could do. I have worked on all the things folks here (and my doc) have suggested just as you have: eating slowly, chewing WELL, and no water 30 min. before/after. Now, the pain/nausea occurs about 50% of the time, so it's still there, but not as much. I just posted a question about it asking others if their pain ever stopped, and I'm hearing that over time it will continue to get better. I have had to remind myself daily (especially if I have a bad episode) that even though my energy has pretty much returned and I look & act like the pre-op me now, my insides are still healing and because of this very much a work in progress. I think the advice to back off foods that you have a particularly bad reaction to for a few weeks is good. I've even had a couple days where just for my own comfort and sanity I stuck mostly to protein drinks, yogurt, soups. (I should mention I moved to foods a little quicker than some).

I'm vigilant about chewing thoroughly and eating slowly, but as I introduce new foods post-op it's about 50/50 whether I'll end up with pretty bad stomach pain. I'm assuming that weeks or months down the road this will be either much less of an issue or will go away entirely? Would really like feedback from folks down the road on what your experience was. Thanks, j

Lacie -- I had very bad pain the first time I tried eggs, which was during my second week. Now, two weeks out, the pain is much less, and a couple times I've had none at all. I do think the suggestion to back off of foods you have a particularly bad reaction to is a good one. Try again a few weeks later.

Thanks, all! Diva -- encouraging... : ) Sleeve for me -- yes, eating slowing and chewing fully has been a new habit, a GOOD one I think. I shoveled things in so mindlessly pre-op. Now I find I actually savor food more! MegIn -- thanks. I am doing exactly as you suggest in terms of backing off any food where the pain is more than moderate. I'll try again in a month or so on those! My doc didn't recommend an acid reducer?? I had bad reflux pre-op, but also had a hyatal hernia repaired at the same time, which was the prob. Maybe that's why?

Oh, yes, my tummy lets the world know EXACTLY how it's feeling and what it's doing -- from being very hungry to working extra hard at digesting what I just ate. It is what it is, I guess!

Officially, my surgeon's reco was: - 1 week clear liquids - 1 week full liquids - 1 week mushies Move to "real food" However, I moved to mushies/real food about 2 weeks out. I've noticed on the posts here that just as our bodies are all different, surgeons' post-op diet instructions seem to be all over the board. Because there didn't seem to be any consistency from doc to doc, I've been allowing my own body to supplement my surgeon's directions. This is one of the reasons I moved to mushies/real food earlier. I was simply WAY too tired and hungry all the time on 100% liquids. In fact, I was even consuming what I felt were a lot of calories based on what I've read here -- like 1,500-2,000/day! Now I'm satisfied with 3 meals and 2-3 Snacks a day that wind up in the area of 1,100/cal/day. One month out & with exercise I'm down 20 pounds. For me (just as you've prob read from others), the key is chewing extremely well and eating very slow -- both good things that I didn't do pre-op. I do have tummy pain still about 50/50 of the time. For now, I practice avoiding foods I suspect my tummy isn't ready for based on how it responds. I'll try them again in a few weeks.

I'm one month out, and moved to mushies and "real food" sooner as well. I'm averaging about 1,100 calories a day now. And I eat portions that resemble yours. If there is one thing I've learned from reading posts here it's that everyone is quite different. For example, I RARELY have a day when I'm in the 400-800 cal. range. I'm hungry every 2-3 hours just like pre-op. The only dif now is that it takes less for me to feel satisfied. If it's helpful, here are some examples of what I might have for meals or Snacks... Meals: - 2 eggs (boiled or scrambled with a bit of cheese) - 2 oz. turkey + 1 oz. cheese on "mini thin" sandwich thin rounds - 1 Campbell's Soup at Hand w/protein added - 1 slice pepperoni pizza Snacks: - Container of Greek yogurt - 1 oz. potato chips (yes, once a week or so still a "guilty pleasure"! - banana or orange

Good for you, Lacie! Glad things are rolling along! (you look great, by the way!)

I'm with misdiva & longer life....ditch the scale for 6 days out of 7 or 29 days out of 30. If you look at any of my posts, I've had the same issue. I was sleeved at the end of last year and I've had days and days where the scale didn't move and times when it even went up -- and this while tracking at about 1,200/day plus exercising! But it IS true that your body is still doing a LOT of work healing. I have to keep reminding myself that even as I get my energy back bit by bit -- even enough to do a boot camp 3-4/times week now -- my insides are still healing. And you know what reminds me of that? Unfortunately it's that "ouch" feeling when something hits my tummy that it's not quite ready for. Even with all the care in chewing and eating slowly, it's clear that my insides are not 100% yet! But guess what -- 1 month out and I've lost 20 pounds! Now everyone is different. I cannot stress that enough. And I have been working my bootie off (literally ; ) at this boot camp. But I feel great that I am finally starting to see a payoff. Just hang in there. Do what you need to do nutrition-wise. Move as much as you can. You WILL get there!!

You go girl!!!

PDXman -- very informative. Thanks for the great info. There IS so much being bandied about with respect to the quality of calories and how that ultimately affects your body's response to them. I love data, research, and new info, so have to be careful otherwise I can drive myself (and others!) crazy. So for now, I'm just trying my best to get my 70g of Protein each day -- some days I make it, others I miss. And keeping carbs as low as I can. I use 411fit.com. Right now for the last 7 days it shows these averages: Calories: 961 Carbs: 81 Fat: 40 Protein: 70 Hydration: 63 oz. And I can also go back and run a report on my net calorie intake since I started tracking (1/10) all food and exercise. I just learned by doing so that it's a pretty good indicator. From 1/10-1/30 I have had: Nutrition in: 24707 Nutrition out: 47037 (it shows a DMR that varies slightly day by day but is around 2100 then add to this any exercise I do) For a net change of: -22330 The prediction area says that with all of this I should have lost 6.38 pounds. Just weighed in today and lost 8 pounds, so that's pretty darn close. Anyhow, obviously right now at this stage I'm a data junkie, but it is proving to be a helpful way to keep a bird's eye view on things, as they say. And more than that, it's keeping me vigilant about protein, carbs & exercise. toodles! jewelwithin

I told myself I wasn't going to pay attention much to month one, because I've heard there's still a lot going on with healing, etc., that may affect things. But now I've got to admit, I'm concerned. I lost 10 pounds during the first week of the liquid diet -- no surprise -- but haven't lost anything since. I was sleeved on 12/29/11. I've been tracking food by the bite, and have averaged roughly 1,100 calories a day. I have been doing my best to keep Protein up and carbs low, but haven't always hit the mark there. My question: Shouldn't calories per day, amount spent exercising, etc., work the same way after surgery? I understand WHY the high protein/low carb diet works, just as it would PRE-surgery. But if I've been averaging 1,100 calories a day for more than two weeks I would have thought I'd have least lost 4-5 pounds!! Has anyone's doc given them the idea that weight loss WON'T happen if you don't go low carb??? If so, why?? Why wouldn't reduced calories and increased exercise work the same way after the sleeve as it would before (well, when I was able to stick to a reduced calorie diet that is!! ; )

Steel sleeve -- thank you...I keep looking over your numbers since I am 5'4" with a starting pre-op weight of 245, and wearing 20/22 and 1X-3X tops depending on the maker. What tremendous progress you've made!! Congrats, congrats!! Because of our size "similarities," you're an inspiration to me. To shop for a 12 and regular size tops is a dream...can't WAIT to be able to shop for what I really like rather than being forced to select from the few things that will fit and hide what needs to be hidden. Good luck on you last 20. PDXMan -- Thank you for the info. Now I know all people are different, and we all know that men and women tend to lose weight differently, but still wanted to ask: Do you know offhand if you regularly go over your typical 1200-1400 if you will start gaining? Good luck on your training...a marathon...WOW, wow...

I'm just curious after reading Sleeveofsteel's post...how many of you ate in the range of 1,200 calories a day post-op and lost weight? AND...for those of you that have hit goal -- what is your typical caloric intake now?

Hi Karelia, Let me say first that I hope you do not feel from my posts that I am judging you in any way. WLS is a HIGHLY personal decision, and people consider it for a wide range of reasons. And I don't think anyone's reasons for looking at this as "wrong." Whatever your reasons are -- for health, lifestyle, convenience, whatever -- you have to weigh all the pros and cons. I debated about posting that link for the very reason you state. The site obviously has a bias. However, it had some very current research. Awhile back I ran across a conference at Yale University that was examining this subject. I didn't put that here because I remembered it as being kind of "old." It sort of is -- from 2007. But here is that link: http://www.yaleruddcenter.org/resources/upload/docs/news/RuddCenterAddictionMeeting.pdf My point here is not to convince you that people can or can't be addicted to food. Rather, it's just that there is growing evidence and so in my mind the jury is still out. There are obviously very real neurobiological mechanisms at play. But clearly even the scientists don't see eye to eye on all aspects of this. And secondly, I would just encourage you to consider that as you hear these stories of complications to remember what you're doing is gathering ANECDOTAL information. If you allow this to weigh more heavily in your decision you are making the same mistake as if I viewed the food addiction Web site as the most reliable source of information on the subject. YES, some people have complications. YES, even death (I heard about one first-hand from the nurse who was drawing my blood pre-op...talk about unfortunate timing for my frame of mind!) I guess because this IS such a huge decision -- a life changing one to be sure -- I'm just encouraging you to not get so dug in to the individual stories that you don't also give equal time to the big picture. Also, in my limited experience I'd say you're dead on with the notion that post-op one's life is focused a LOT on food, food choices, counting carbs/protein/whatever, etc. That is a trade-off that I don't think I fully understood until now, when I'm less than a month post-op. I am logging everything and watching closely. Even so, with the slower, more mindful eating, I have noticed that FINALLY I'm learning to really enjoy my food and savor it. It sounds like you got to that more mindful eating approach via a different path (IE). Mind you, I'm not complaining AT ALL about the tracking, etc. I personally feel that the improved health, boosted confidence, and more robust lifestyle will be more than a fair trade. But that's me, and my life. Whatever your decision I wish you all the best. It sounds like you have some exciting transitions ahead, so I'm certain that surgery or no surgery you'll have a very busy & interesting road in the months ahead. j

Also Karelia, I agree with you that in matters such as these there are no guarantees. You DON'T know if certain issues you currently deal with will be made better or worse. Yet with regard to the information you've found about people having WLS, eliminating their diabetes, and then having it re-occur, I would argue that is important when you read such things to know what percentage of people have had this happen. Is this just anecdotal data, or are there valid scientific studies that show this happens to a certain % of people who have WLS and who suffer pre-op from diabetes? You might be hearing about something that happens in 1 out of 100 or 1,000 cases. So sure there's a CHANCE, but how realistic is it that it will really happen? I for one and very hopeful that this surgery will allow my blood pressure to return to normal levels without the help of Rx and that I will no longer have sleep apnea and have to wear a funny mask every night.

With all due respect, there is a growing body of research that suggests food addiction is very real. It has nothing to do with whether your body needs it or doesn't need it. It has to do with the neurobiology of addition -- things such as the release of dopamine and the activation of certain areas of the brain in ways with obese people that is not the same with those that are lean. If you're interested in some snooze-provoking reading ; ) this is a good place to start: http://foodaddiction...h/new-research/

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Sleeveofsteel (love the name, but the way!): That is SO encouraging, especially because we are the same height and have roughly the same goal weight it seems from your ticker. Caitlyn -- Very good point, and I did mention to a friend last night that I have noticed my pants fitting differently. With the boot camp I go to there is a mix of cardio, interval training, and strength/core work. Chances are there is at least a little muscle coming on board...a good thing! PDXman: That is the BEST explanation I've received for why you can't drink & eat at the same time, which I haven't been. Still, I wondered why...and now I know! in light of all this great discussion, I am trying to be much more careful with carb vs. Protein intake. And you're right, sleeve is fine with meat -- just had two turkey slices rolled up with a 1/2 a slice of cheese inside...yum!

LoserMama & PDX man -- some really good points here, thank you. There may be something to that "window of opportunity," because I have read that at least from anecdotal "research" some people start to get more appetite back down the road. And yes -- caught in the act -- I really shouldn't be eating pizza but gave it a try very, very slowly and did OK. The slow eating and chewing thoroughly makes all the difference! That said, pizza isn't very low on the fat side, and so I am watching that more with my Protein. One of my favorite high-protein lunches is a mini noodle Campbell's Soup at hand doctored up with the unjury chicken flavored protein (21 g for the scoop). The down side of that is the sodium content, and who knows, that may be making me hold on to more Water. Interestingly enough, when I look over my day-by-day I see that when I was doing full liquids I would rack up MORE calories than now when I have moved to more solid food. I'm taking it slow and watching what my new tummy does and doesn't like right now, but I think that bit of solid food has made me feel full longer and typically with fewer calories than a Protein Drink. One other question: How much do you think your sleeve holds? I ask because I can "eat" the whole soup at hand I referenced earlier and it's just shy of 11 ounces. At that point I am FULL, not sickly so, just don't-want-to-eat-another-bite full. When I listen to folks say they're full after a couple of spoonfuls (like what you said, PDX), I wonder if my doc left my sleeve a bit on the larger side? Exercise is coming back: Had not yet completed a full 60 min boot camp class...could only make it through about 40 minutes before feeling like I was going to heave. But today I did it!! So I'm sitting here with a great feeling about that because I have felt that my energy isn't 100% yet.

Cys -- it depends how drastic you want to go. People that follow Atkins are usually under 60-70 grams/day. They start super low, like below 50 (even 20-30) in order to get into a state of ketosis. Once ketosis kicks in they gradually increase until they aren't losing or aren't losing as much. You can even by these strips to test your urine to see if you are in ketosis or not. Gee, can you tell I once tried the Atkins diet? :wink1:

I've had an issue with this low-carb bit, too. I understand how/why they work in term of getting your body to go into ketosis, so that it burns its own fat for fuel rather than carbs. HOWEVER, Tnt: I'm with you and your endo. if you are following a healthy, nutrient-rich diet and still slowly and steadily losing weight then that is GOOD! And that is the goal, after all, isn't it? Besides this, there are known health issues with going high-protein/low-carb. That kind of diet has been linked to such ailments as kidney probs, high cholesterol (if you aren't watching the fat), osteoporosis and even cancer.

All -- thank you for all the helpful responses. I would really like to hear more from everyone on this whole daily caloric intake issue from all of you! Here's my question to all of you eating 400-900 cal/day... To me operation or no operation that just sounds crazy low in the same way that my 1,100 sounds crazy high to some of you. My understanding has always been that medically our body needs a certain amount of calories even at rest just to function. I know the exact amount is probably debatable, but take this example from livestrong.com: At rest Your body has a basal metabolic rate, BMR, which translates into the number of calories you need in order to survive. The American Council on Exercises uses this formula to determine approximate BMR numbers: Adult males should multiply your weight by 12. Adult females should multiply your weight by 11. For example, an average 20 year old, 150 pound male would require 1,800 calories each day: 150 x 12 = 1,800. Further, every doc/nut/diet program I ever saw or tried pre-op always stressed don't go below 1,200 calories a day. The idea being that when you go below 1,200/day (1,500 for men), your body's protective mechanisms kick in, i.e., starvation mode, and the body's metabolism actually slows down. Plus, it makes it hard below 1,200 to get all the nutrients and can cause health complications like gout, gallstones, heart probs, etc. So here is my question: How can it be that 1,200 is a safe and effective (for most) daily caloric rate for steady weight loss over time before VS surgery, but after surgery -- when all that has happened is that the stomach is smaller -- 1,200 is suddenly far too much???? It just doesn't make physiological sense to me. Have any of you probed further with your doc or NUT about this subject? And FYI on me: I did see a NUT. She gave me the Protein goal of 70/day and carb average of 20/meal. There was no set caloric intake. I am eating small portions when hungry. For example, where I would have (and did) stuff 4, 5 or even 6 pieces of pizza into myself pre-op, I'm lucky to finish one thin-crust slice before I feel very full and stop.