"Head Hunger"

[summerset 5,261]

18 minutes ago, GBLady41 said:

I'm not offended. I'm frustrated at being accused of something that other people are actually doing.

You're frustrated, offended and angry because people don't take what you write as gospel but call you out on your unscientific and unproven statements.

Claiming you're not frustrated, offended and angry? Well, you don't give the impression that you're not.

[GBLady41 393]

9 hours ago, summerset said:

You're frustrated, offended and angry because people don't take what you write as gospel but call you out on your unscientific and unproven statements.

Claiming you're not frustrated, offended and angry? Well, you don't give the impression that you're not.

Actually, you seem to be frustrated, offended and angry for the same reasons you're accusing me of. Interesting...

By the way, most of you are not talking about scientific or proven statements. You're talking about your experiences.

[GBLady41 393]

10 hours ago, SunnyinSC said:

I'm fairly new here, but you did make a lot of definitive statements in your original posting. You claimed it's not about calories, but about energy. That 1000 calories a day aren't needed to survive. And that people don't feel actual hunger when they're eating at a calorie deficit (IE losing weight). You lead with the statement "...when you're losing weight, your body is not hungry."

When you're posting in a thread about how people's actual hunger keeps getting dismissed as head hunger, even though it's perfectly normal to experience actual hunger after surgery; then it seems like you are applying your experience to everyone, even if that was not your intention. That ends up feeding into the very problem the initial rant was about.

My "definitive" statements had everything to do with my experience. Believe me, if I wanted to apply what I have gone through to everyone, I would have.

I was explaining what has happened to me, what I have learned through my own experience about what head hunger is for me. What I have learned that is the difference between when my body is happy receiving Protein and what's going on chemically in my brain when I crave carbs or sweets.

I don't need 1000 calories to thrive. I never have, even before I had weight loss surgery. And I don't get hungry. I never said that no one gets hungry. I said I don't experience actual hunger. I have a schedule that lets me know when to eat. There are weight loss patients who experience this, sometimes for the rest of their lives. I have read way too many posts about people who had surgery over 15 years ago who still don't feel actual hunger. That means that when they had surgery, it affected ghrelin, which is what causes one to receive the signal in their brain that they are hungry (the stomach growling, etc.) If I don't have a schedule, I can go for hours without eating, only experiencing extreme tiredness.

So, for me, I know the difference between real hunger, which I don't have, and head hunger, or emotional eating. When I lost weight after surgery, I was not hungry. My body was fulfilled with what I ate everyday. I got in more than the suggested protein and fluids. Not only that, I was exercising 5 to 6 days a week, weight training and cardio. My body simply burnt off what it no longer needed. I was not dieting. I was eating the most important calories.

Recently, with the pandemic, I allowed bad habits to return to my life. I compromised, and gained weight. Even though it's been more than 4 years since I had surgery, I still don't need anywhere near 1000 calories, proven by eating that amount or more, and gaining weight. So, now I am breaking those bad habits and going back to getting the right calories, not giving in to emotional eating. Going back to eating on a schedule, so that even if I'm not exercising as much as I used to, I will still lose weight, because I have done away with empty calories and only eat until I get the first feeling of fullness. I allowed the pandemic to get the best of me. But my tool still works. And I will use it.

[Circus321 58]

On 02/22/2021 at 23:48, GBLady41 said:

Actually, you seem to be frustrated, offended and angry for the same reasons you're accusing me of. Interesting...

By the way, most of you are not talking about scientific or proven statements. You're talking about your experiences.

Lol I just can’t with you. You’re literally not listening to, considering, or respecting anything anyone else has to say while expecting us to do the same for you and take what you say as fact. That’s “interesting” considering that your “facts” have been proven scientifically and medically wrong. You’re not even on the same page as the people you’re arguing with because you haven’t even tried to understand what they were trying to say. Lol. I’m unfollowing this conversation so don’t bother replying, I won’t see it. But in the future try to remember that as a community where we’re supposed to support one another we have to LISTEN to each other and respect others’ opinions and experiences, even if they contradict ours. You might learn something you didn’t know if you open yourself up to listening to others. Good luck on your journey 👍

[SunnyinSC 137]

On 2/21/2021 at 3:58 AM, GBLady41 said:

*snip*

I'm sorry but when you're losing weight, your body is not hungry. You're losing weight because your body is using the energy and calories you take in and getting rid of what you don't need. Nine times out of ten, you are NOT actually hungry. It's head hunger. Weight loss surgery gives us all a chance to relearn our bodies and the difference between actual hunger and head hunger, between what our bodies need and what our brains crave. The truth is that our head does indeed play tricks on us, if we let it. We don't need 1000 calories to survive. It's not about calories, it's about energy, eating the food that actually fuels us, and knowing the difference.

*snip*

At no point did I attempt to discount your experience. As a reminder, this was your first paragraph. I am sorry, but if that's you talking about your own experience only, then I'll eat my shoe. You start off by saying "when you're losing weight, your body is not hungry", and go on to use "us" and "we" multiple times. There are no I statements there. No "this is my experience" in the entire paragraph. There is not any "most people", "some people", or any language that would indicate you're not referring to a collective group instead of a subset. The fact that you keep insisting you were not generalizing and that you were only referring to your own experiences, is insulting.

I am well aware of the way the brain communicates with the stomach, and the hormones that get released. I also recognize that one of the triggers for hormone release is when your body is in need of energy, IE when it needs food. There are foods that can help you feel full longer, such as Protein, but that doesn't prevent the initial hunger trigger when your body needs energy. Now everyone's bodies are different. I fully believe that maybe some people don't experience actual hunger anymore after surgery. I have not once said otherwise. But those people are not what this thread was ever about (unless they were pushing their experiences onto others).

I also know that, scientifically speaking, the majority of people do need over 1000 calories to survive as a general rule. There are some exceptions, such as people trying to lose weight, but when eating so few calories it's strongly recommended to be medically supervised as it's well known that it can be dangerous to do. If you're an exception and you've discussed that with your doctor, then that's great. However, that is below most people's BMR. Stating that "we don't need 1000 calories to survive" is not only false, but can be very damaging to people who are at or below their goal weight who may not know better if they aren't medically supervised.

No one here has claimed that head hunger doesn't happen. Quite the contrary, many of us have given multiple examples of our head hunger. The rant was about the seeming denial of actual hunger as a thing on these forums. What you have done, and continue to do, is akin to coming into a place where someone is stating they're tired of people not believing they have depression cause they don't experience xyz symptom, and then you stating that people with depression have xyz symptom and then stating you have depression and you experience xyz symptom. It not only is tone deaf, but completely dismisses the original person's experience and feelings.

That being said, I won't engage with you further. You seem more hell bent on how your words are being perceived than actually contributing to the topic at hand. I was only really engaging to point out why your posts are not being well received, but you don't seem to care.

Edited February 23, 2021 by SunnyinSC

[KayBee1972 13]

So I'm angry because I was told that I wouldn't be actually hungry for months. Nearly 5 weeks out and my stomach starts gnawing at me. Not head hunger, I was happily working away at my desk and suddenly I'm getting very impolite signals from my abdomen. WTF is that about? I was looking forward to ignoring food for months. I mean, obviously eating at appropriate times for Protein and whatnot, and I'm betrayed by my own stomach.

And to make matters worse, I've stalled. scale no budge and I'm following the sample diet plan food/portion sizes.

I can't be the only one, right? I worry that I just took a bunch of time off work and spent thousands of $$ to lose 25 pounds.

[Hop_Scotch 1,625]

Stalls are normal, you will find many posts about them, for post people as long as they are following their post op guidelines the weight loss will pick up again. How long since you've since you've lost any weight?

My stomach growls when I drink and the fluids are going through it. For some people the growling is gas and for others its excess stommach Hopefully your stomach growling isn't due to physical hunger but one of the other reasons. Had it been a while since you had eaten before the growling started?

[Dogmom68 135]

On 03/10/2021 at 20:02, KayBee1972 said:

So I'm angry because I was told that I wouldn't be actually hungry for months. Nearly 5 weeks out and my stomach starts gnawing at me. Not head hunger, I was happily working away at my desk and suddenly I'm getting very impolite signals from my abdomen. WTF is that about? I was looking forward to ignoring food for months. I mean, obviously eating at appropriate times for Protein and whatnot, and I'm betrayed by my own stomach.

And to make matters worse, I've stalled. scale no budge and I'm following the sample diet plan food/portion sizes.

I can't be the only one, right? I worry that I just took a bunch of time off work and spent thousands of $$ to lose 25 pounds.

I understand what you’re saying! I’m only 4 weeks out and I’m feeling that empty, gnawing feeling in my stomach, as well. I try to tell myself that it’s not actual hunger but I can’t help feeling those same old hunger pains I did before surgery. At least now I just physically can’t eat as much because of the size of my stomach. However, it doesn’t change the fact that real hunger is there.

[Jaelzion 1,123]

13 hours ago, KayBee1972 said:

So I'm angry because I was told that I wouldn't be actually hungry for months. Nearly 5 weeks out and my stomach starts gnawing at me. Not head hunger, I was happily working away at my desk and suddenly I'm getting very impolite signals from my abdomen. WTF is that about? I was looking forward to ignoring food for months. I mean, obviously eating at appropriate times for Protein and whatnot, and I'm betrayed by my own stomach.

And to make matters worse, I've stalled. scale no budge and I'm following the sample diet plan food/portion sizes.

I can't be the only one, right? I worry that I just took a bunch of time off work and spent thousands of $$ to lose 25 pounds.

You're a little over a month out and it's common to encounter a stall right around then, so don't worry too much about that. It doesn't mean you won't lose any more weight, most people start losing again after 1-3 weeks. 😊

Regarding your appetite, I'm sorry you haven't gotten the typical reduction of hunger after your surgery. In keeping with the original post of this thread, I believe you that you're experiencing real hunger and not just head hunger. I notice that you're tall at 5' 11", so your base calorie needs may be higher than average. Are you extra active? That would also up your calorie requirements. It may take some trial and error to find an eating pattern that is sustainable for you and also allows you to keep losing. As I lost, I kept having to adjust my intake because my caloric needs went down as I got smaller. You'll find the sweet spot.

As for the stall, most of us have been through it. Just stay the course and wait it out, it will break.

[victoriaciminelli111 43]

Yes! I just posted about this. Head hunger sucks. My biggest triggers are boredom and stress. Then I want to still eat everything in sight

[KayBee1972 13]

15 hours ago, Hop_Scotch said:

Had it been a while since you had eaten before the growling started?

It's usually 2-3 hours post last meal when I feel it. I'm also chronically under-hydrated, but drinking Water makes it more pronounced.

I'm not particularly extra active, but the day I was ravenous I had done a 30 min super light exercise and stretching routine before lunch. I know other people subsist on 600 calories, but as soon as I went back to work, even though it's desk work, that hunger kicked in. Mental work takes calories? Idk.

As far as weight loss it's been down maybe 1 lb in the last week.

A friend who had this surgery said she stalled and then got her period and weight loss kicked in again. Maybe I'm retaining water?

[EmperorXenu 7]

I'm sorry, do people deny that hunger is a real thing? Y'all weird af what are you doing? I had gastric sleeve surgery a little over a week ago and I can assure you I have been freaking starving this whole time and if you want to tell me it's in my head I'll laugh you out of the room.

Edited March 12, 2021 by EmperorXenu

[summerset 5,261]

14 minutes ago, EmperorXenu said:

I'm sorry, do people deny that hunger is a real thing?

Once introduced to the concept of head hunger (plus a surgeon making steep claims about "hunger not being a thing anymore for a whole while") some people tend to go overboard and label every desire for food as pathologic "head hunger".

We get hammered into our heads almost constantly that we can't be trusted with food ever - so this is not really surprising in the end. Too many of us think that "others know better" when it comes to our bodies and their needs.

Edited March 12, 2021 by summerset

[EmperorXenu 7]

4 minutes ago, summerset said:

Once introduced to the concept of head hunger (plus a surgeon making steep claims about "hunger not being a thing anymore for a whole while") some people tend to go overboard and label every desire for food as pathologic "head hunger".

We get hammered into our heads almost constantly that we can't be trusted with food ever - so this is not really surprising in the end. Too many of us think that "others know better" when it comes to our bodies and their needs.

Yeah, I was told I wouldn't be hungry for a year. Turns out that was a lie. That's the correct conclusion, they were full of it when they said that. The conclusion isn't "Well I must not actually be hungry then". Wild.

[summerset 5,261]

9 hours ago, KayBee1972 said:

It's usually 2-3 hours post last meal when I feel it. I'm also chronically under-hydrated, but drinking Water makes it more pronounced.

It's always hard to tell what "stomach noises" are about. Stomachs make noises all the time, lol.

That "gnawing experience" you're experiencing - are you on PPI? Some people seem to experience the sensations you're talking about because of stomach acid and PPI are helping them. Many surgeons recommend PPI for 6 month after surgery but not all seem to do so.