Should have waited for Fecal Transplant

[over65 133]

Just kidding. Not available in humans yet. Researchers experimented with mice. They had baby mice born in "bubble" and these mice had virtually no bacteria (good or bad) in microbiome (gut). No matter how much they ate, they were unable to gain any weight. They also had mice where the hormone leptein was blocked. Leptein is what tells your brain you have satiety and quit eating. These mice without leptein available ate nonstop and became extremely obese. Third group were totally normal mice, eating appropriately and maintaining normal weight. First experiment, they took fecal material from normal mice and transplanted to mice unable to gain weight. The skinny mice now had healthy microbiome and gained and maintained weight like normal mice. But what impressed me was the second experiment. They transplanted feces from normal mice to the morbidly obese mice that couldn't stop eating. The obese mice lost weight down to normal weight. If possible in humans, I could have had fecal transplant from thin person instead of having most of my stomach removed. SHUCKS.

There is tons of research being done on microbiome and obesity. Scientists are discovering possible causes of obesity relating to the bacteria in their gut. We aren't to the point yet of identifying which bacteria are involved out of trillions in gut (either missing in gut or releasing a bad byproduct that causes cascade of problems in the body leading to metabolic syndrome). I find this fascinating.

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[rjan 163]

I agree - the microbiome is very fascinating.

I actually had food intolerance issues for about 8 years until I went on a probiotic and Prebiotic regimen about 5 years ago. Helped a lot with my digestion, but not with my weight unfortunately.

However, studies also show that bariatric surgery changes the microbiome.

[catwoman7 10,845]

I'm guessing at some point they'll be able to do this for humans, but I wasn't going to wait around for it. I'll probably be dead before it becomes "the thing".

[New&Improved 1,780]

I've watched documentaries where they are treating serious bowel issues with fecal transplant in humans and it has helped...

I feel the bypass has totally changed my metabolism and the way my body now processes food like now I'm in maintenance in eating more calories and still staying the same weight where before surgery I would put on weight so easily...

It's like I have a thin persons body and mind now

[over65 133]

Microbiome affects everything. It will be years before they figure things out. Stanford Univ did fecal transplants on 19 kid on autism spectrum. 40% reduction in nervous behavioral symptoms for two months. I want to start a probiotic specifically for chronic constiptation. Research studies shows specific strains of bacteria greatly improved constiptation in elderly in nursing home. But cannot get reliable source. Probiotics are like Vitamins and supplements, not regulated by FDC. So you have no idea if the probiotic you buy is even alive, what it claims to be and even effective. ACTIVIA didn't help at all.

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[New&Improved 1,780]

It is well documented that Roux-en-Y gastric bypass (RYGB) surgery drastically alters the fecal microbiome, but data are sparse on temporal and spatial microbiome and metabolome changes, especially in human populations. We characterized the structure and function (through metabolites) of the microbial communities in the gut lumen and structure of microbial communities on mucosal surfaces in nine morbidly obese individuals before, 6 months, and 12 months after RYGB surgery. Moreover, using a comprehensive multi-omic approach, we compared this longitudinal cohort to a previously studied cross-sectional cohort (n = 24). In addition to the expected weight reduction and improvement in obesity-related comorbidities after RYGB surgery, we observed that the impact of surgery was much greater on fecal communities in comparison to mucosal ones. The changes in the fecal microbiome were linked to increased concentrations of branched-chain fatty acids and an overall decrease in secondary bile acid concentrations. The microbiome and metabolome data sets for this longitudinal cohort strengthen our understanding of the persistent impact of RYGB on the gut microbiome and its metabolism. Our findings highlight the importance of changes in mucosal and fecal microbiomes after RYGB surgery. The spatial modifications in the microbiome after RYGB surgery corresponded to persistent changes in fecal fermentation and bile acid metabolism, both of which are associated with improved metabolic outcomes.

[RickM 1,747]

11 hours ago, Superman84 said:

I feel the bypass has totally changed my metabolism and the way my body now processes food like now I'm in maintenance in eating more calories and still staying the same weight where before surgery I would put on weight so easily...

It's like I have a thin persons body and mind now

Be watchful on this, as the caloric malabsorption of the RNY that helps in the weight loss dissipates after the first year or two and this can lead to regain for those who establish habits early on in maintenance that they can't break later. So, continue to pay attention to your weight and intake an make adjustments as needed over time.

[RickM 1,747]

Fecal transplants have been used for a while in treating recurrent Cdiff, and there is now a Cdiff drug in trials (if not more than one) that is effectively a micro-targeted probiotic, or fecal transplant in a pill.

[Lily66 425]

Florastor is reportedly one of the strongest Probiotics protecting against Cdiff. I took it for years working in an Assisted Living community. May be worth going back on it again for gut/constipation issues. Not inexpensive, but worth it. costco carries it both in store and online. No refrigeration required. Back in the day it cost me roughly $50/month for Florastor, not sure if it has come down in price.

Edited June 5, 2020 by Lily66

[Circlesis 59]

Years ago there was a frequent poster on this site that had one for non-weight issues. I don’t know if she is still around , but I do recall she had really great results with her surgery.

[New&Improved 1,780]

9 hours ago, RickM said:

Be watchful on this, as the caloric malabsorption of the RNY that helps in the weight loss dissipates after the first year or two and this can lead to regain for those who establish habits early on in maintenance that they can't break later. So, continue to pay attention to your weight and intake an make adjustments as needed over time.

Well I'm nearly 8 months out from surgery and been in maintenance maybe 2 months but yes I do keep my eye on my Weight

[rjan 163]

On 6/5/2020 at 10:56 AM, over65 said:

Microbiome affects everything. It will be years before they figure things out. Stanford Univ did fecal transplants on 19 kid on autism spectrum. 40% reduction in nervous behavioral symptoms for two months. I want to start a probiotic specifically for chronic constiptation. Research studies shows specific strains of bacteria greatly improved constiptation in elderly in nursing home. But cannot get reliable source. Probiotics are like Vitamins and supplements, not regulated by FDC. So you have no idea if the probiotic you buy is even alive, what it claims to be and even effective. ACTIVIA didn't help at all.

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I grow my own - that way I know they're fresh! I make kefir, which is much easier than yogurt - just pour milk in, wait a day, drain the kefir off - done. No heating or other nonsense required.

I ordered the grains that hold the probiotic colony and make the kefir from Amazon - just search "kefir grains." Only costs 10-20 dollars. I've had mine for 5 years, and have given them away to several people since then (they multiply over time).

[over65 133]

I decided I will lactic acid ferment raw veggies all summer in mason jars. Same nutrition as raw plus get Lactobacillus and easier to digest. pickles, kimchi, carrots, cauliflower, peppers, tomatoes, almost any raw veggie. No canning. Just add sea salt brine and keep veggies in anaerobic state during fermentation.

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[over65 133]

Fecal transplants have been used for a while in treating recurrent Cdiff, and there is now a Cdiff drug in trials (if not more than one) that is effectively a micro-targeted probiotic, or fecal transplant in a pill.

CDIFF is cured in 90% of patients with fecal transplant. Interesting case in UK. A woman with serious CDIFF and close to dying. They suggested fecal transplant and that results were better if came from close relative. It saved her life but she quickly started gaining weight. Her cousin donor was obese and the transplant transferred some bacteria that was associated with obesity. So now doing better job a pre-screening donors.

Most of serotonin used by the brain is made in the gut. That may explain why depression after WLS is common. Less serotonin being made and available to the brain.

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[PollyEster 228]

Bariatric surgery appears to alter the gut microbiota in many of the same ways that a fecal transplant does. Though the pathomechanisms for this are not yet completely understood, what is known is that it increases Escherichia coli (which is correlated with leptin levels) and Faecalibacterium prausnitzii (which reduces inflammatory markers) due to the starvation-like state in the immediate post-op period. There’s a lot of exciting research in this field right now that looks promising in terms of future treatment possibilities for obesity and morbid obesity.

Edited June 17, 2020 by PollyEster