Keto Diet with weight loss surgery - What are your thoughts about it?

[SteveT74 359]

2 hours ago, 🅺🅸🅼🅼🅸🅴🅺 said:

Well said! And yes, you can totally do Keto without a meter. I generally can tell when my ketones are above 1.2+...you get that "buzz". Ya know what I mean? It's an energy that you can feel from the top of your head to the bottom of your feet. It's a great feeling. Mainly bought a meter because I'm a big fan of experimenting. Sounds like you're doing an awesome job! Keto on, man!

I love eating the keto diet, but it does have some negatives. For me, it's Constipation and bloating. They are constant companions for me lately. I have been getting in 75-100oz of Water and have been upping my Fiber consumption, but hasn't been helping much. Have you had any issues like this?

[mousecat88 2,279]

The plan, I have anyways, is low fat low carb forever. I had labs and I have tons of ketones in my urine. The diet is already putting you in ketosis.

Sent from my SM-G930R4 using BariatricPal mobile app

[🅺🅸🅼🅼🅸🅴🅺 296]

On 1/25/2019 at 5:07 PM, SteveT74 said:

I love eating the Keto diet, but it does have some negatives. For me, it's Constipation and bloating. They are constant companions for me lately. I have been getting in 75-100oz of Water and have been upping my Fiber consumption, but hasn't been helping much. Have you had any issues like this?

I've really never run into constipation because I use A LOT of MCT oil. At least 4tbsp in my morning coffee. And I also take electrolyte supplement capsules. They work so well I almost have too much spit in my mouth sometimes LOL You might add some MCT oil to your food if your tummy can handle it. If you're the slightest bit sensitive you'll realize it quickly and will probably have that constipation ease up a bit.

Edit: Also, there are some MCT oil capsules. They're usually only about 1g fat per capsule no matter the brand.

Edited January 28, 2019 by 🅺🅸🅼🅼🅸🅴🅺

[Frustr8 7,886]

Will MCT really help that much to avoid Constipation? I'm for anything that will lubricate them rocks and large chunks of brick!💩

[SteveT74 359]

15 minutes ago, 🅺🅸🅼🅼🅸🅴🅺 said:

I've really never run into Constipation because I use A LOT of MCT oil. At least 4tbsp in my morning coffee. And I also take electrolyte supplement capsules. They work so well I almost have too much spit in my mouth sometimes LOL You might add some MCT oil to your food if your tummy can handle it. If you're the slightest bit sensitive you'll realize it quickly and will probably have that constipation ease up a bit.

Edit: Also, there are some MCT oil capsules. They're usually only about 1g fat per capsule no matter the brand.

Thanks for the tip on the MCT oil. I am going to look into getting some. It's pretty high in calories though?? Does that concern you at all? Even on Keto, you still have to watch your calories.

[🅺🅸🅼🅼🅸🅴🅺 296]

37 minutes ago, Frustr8 said:

Will MCT really help that much to avoid Constipation? I'm for anything that will lubricate them rocks and large chunks of brick!💩

OMG you poor thing I think IT surely has the ability to help. Some folks are kind of sensitive to the oil and it gets your guts burbling. The only way to know is to try it out. I sure hope it can help you.

Edited January 28, 2019 by 🅺🅸🅼🅼🅸🅴🅺

[🅺🅸🅼🅼🅸🅴🅺 296]

4 minutes ago, SteveT74 said:

Thanks for the tip on the MCT oil. I am going to look into getting some. It's pretty high in calories though?? Does that concern you at all? Even on Keto, you still have to watch your calories.

The Ketovangelist way of keto doesn't have you mind your calories in that way. Check this link out https://www.ketovangelist.com/the-calorie-hypothesis/ Calories are more of a guide to make sure you don't drop below your TDEE (Total Daily Energy Expenditure). Most folks do well taking an average of their BMR and maintenance calories and using that number as a guide to create their macros. Here's an excellent TDEE calculator https://tdeecalculator.net/ (just don't let it make your macros - it's WAY off) Constantly eating below your BMR causes stalls and gains so that happy medium between your BMR and maintenance seems to prevent that and keep you burning fat and sparing muscle. Have you found an FB group for bariatric folks doing keto? There has to be one. I'm not sure how pre-op keto will translate to post-op since most post-op folks are eating low fat. I'm sure I'll eventually be seeking out a group. Let me know if you find one you like.

[SteveT74 359]

I understand that weight gain and loss (beyond the usual 10-15 pound swings most people experience) is based on insulin resistance rather than total calorie consumption. However, even with diets that are not based entirely on cutting calories--like Keto and Atkins--still place limits on total consumption and advocate weight food so you can track your macros. Ultimately, the idea is that the fat and Protein that makes up 90% of your consumption on these diets will be more satiating, so you end up eating less because you have less cravings and hunger. Regardless of how the goal is achieved, one of the goals is a reduction or moderation in total caloric intake for someone that has weight they need to lose. Keto, in particular, focuses on insulin control, but by adding in intermittent fasting (which most strict keto people incorporate at some point), you're definitely cutting calories by limiting the window for eating. You're not strictly counting calories like you would on a diet like weight watchers (probably one of the worst diets out there IMO), but the calories are cut anyway (it's just a less painful process in my experience).

Anyway, I am happy with following a keto style diet (constipation notwithstanding). It's something I can do long term, but I can't follow a therapeutic style keto with a 4:1 fat to protein ration or anything close that as a new sleever (6 weeks post-op). Based on my workout regimen, I need to get around 125-150g or protein in a day (even with the protein/muscle sparing qualities of Keto) and there's a limit to how much else I can eat (even with calorie dense fats like avocado). I also don't want to deviate too far from my doctor's prescribed diet at this point, so I doing a 1:1 fat to protein diet (sticking to clean, high quality fats and proteins) and I cut carbs to less than 20g net carbs. I pretty happy with this and it sets enough ground rules that I can easily decide what I can eat and how much of it---even when I am out a restaurant.

[🅺🅸🅼🅼🅸🅴🅺 296]

6 minutes ago, SteveT74 said:

I understand that weight gain and loss (beyond the usual 10-15 pound swings most people experience) is based on insulin resistance rather than total calorie consumption. However, even with diets that are not based entirely on cutting calories--like Keto and Atkins--still place limits on total consumption and advocate weight food so you can track your macros. Ultimately, the idea is that the fat and Protein that makes up 90% of your consumption on these diets will be more satiating, so you end up eating less because you have less cravings and hunger. Regardless of how the goal is achieved, one of the goals is a reduction or moderation in total caloric intake for someone that has weight they need to lose. Keto, in particular, focuses on insulin control, but by adding in intermittent fasting (which most strict keto people incorporate at some point), you're definitely cutting calories by limiting the window for eating. You're not strictly counting calories like you would on a diet like weight watchers (probably one of the worst diets out there IMO), but the calories are cut anyway (it's just a less painful process in my experience).

Anyway, I am happy with following a keto style diet (constipation notwithstanding). It's something I can do long term, but I can't follow a therapeutic style keto with a 4:1 fat to Protein ration or anything close that as a new sleever (6 weeks post-op). Based on my workout regimen, I need to get around 125-150g or protein in a day (even with the protein/muscle sparing qualities of Keto) and there's a limit to how much else I can eat (even with calorie dense fats like avocado). I also don't want to deviate too far from my doctor's prescribed diet at this point, so I doing a 1:1 fat to protein diet (sticking to clean, high quality fats and proteins) and I cut carbs to less than 20g net carbs. I pretty happy with this and it sets enough ground rules that I can easily decide what I can eat and how much of it---even when I am out a restaurant.

Yep! 1:1 is honestly what I hope to be able to do after surgery. And you're right....your tummy is still too new to be too adventurous. It's awesome that you've found out what works for you. It'll get easier with time to do what it takes. Definitely try some MCT. You can get a tiny 3oz bottle of Brain Octane on Amazon for $6.95 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06ZZBJBCT/ref=twister_B07DNKZS97?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1 That way you don't have to commit to a giant size bottle that might get wasted

[SteveT74 359]

3 minutes ago, 🅺🅸🅼🅼🅸🅴🅺 said:

Yep! 1:1 is honestly what I hope to be able to do after surgery. And you're right....your tummy is still too new to be too adventurous. It's awesome that you've found out what works for you. It'll get easier with time to do what it takes. Definitely try some MCT. You can get a tiny 3oz bottle of Brain Octane on Amazon for $6.95 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06ZZBJBCT/ref=twister_B07DNKZS97?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1 That way you don't have to commit to a giant size bottle that might get wasted

Thanks!! I am going to order it. If it helps with the Constipation, I am all on board!!!

[🅺🅸🅼🅼🅸🅴🅺 296]

1 minute ago, SteveT74 said:

Thanks!! I am going to order it. If it helps with the Constipation, I am all on board!!!

You got it! Keep us posted

[🅺🅸🅼🅼🅸🅴🅺 296]

3 minutes ago, SteveT74 said:

Thanks!! I am going to order it. If it helps with the Constipation, I am all on board!!!

One more tip...the oil is EXTREMELY greasy. I mean, slip and bust your butt on one drop on a hard floor type greasy. I've never put it in anything but eggs, hamburger meat and coffee. In the coffee, I have to use a milk frother to break it up enough to where there's not an oil slick on the top of my coffee AND I use a straw so my mouth doesn't get greasy. It has no flavor at all, but if I had to recommend anything, try to mix a tiny bit into anything hot that already has moisture. You can put in broth, Soup, etc. as well as cook your meats in it.

[SteveT74 359]

Just now, 🅺🅸🅼🅼🅸🅴🅺 said:

One more tip...the oil is EXTREMELY greasy. I mean, slip and bust your butt on one drop on a hard floor type greasy. I've never put it in anything but eggs, hamburger meat and coffee. In the coffee, I have to use a milk frother to break it up enough to where there's not an oil slick on the top of my coffee AND I use a straw so my mouth doesn't get greasy. It has no flavor at all, but if I had to recommend anything, try to mix a tiny bit into anything hot that already has moisture. You can put in broth, Soup, etc. as well as cook your meats in it.

Thanks for the tip.

[sillykitty 10,704]

57 minutes ago, 🅺🅸🅼🅼🅸🅴🅺 said:

The Ketovangelist way of Keto doesn't have you mind your calories in that way. Check this link out https://www.ketovangelist.com/the-calorie-hypothesis/ Calories are more of a guide to make sure you don't drop below your TDEE (Total Daily Energy Expenditure). Most folks do well taking an average of their BMR and maintenance calories and using that number as a guide to create their macros. Here's an excellent TDEE calculator https://tdeecalculator.net/ (just don't let it make your macros - it's WAY off) Constantly eating below your BMR causes stalls and gains so that happy medium between your BMR and maintenance seems to prevent that and keep you burning fat and sparing muscle. Have you found an FB group for bariatric folks doing keto? There has to be one. I'm not sure how pre-op keto will translate to post-op since most post-op folks are eating low fat. I'm sure I'll eventually be seeking out a group. Let me know if you find one you like.

Be cautious about making these kind of statements on a bariatric forum. This is contrary to just about every program ever posted on this forum.

Most post op diets are very low calorie, VLC, at least at the beginning. A large caloric deficiency is the norm. This generally leads to rapid initial weight loss. And then as we heal and our stomachs naturally stretch a bit we eat more calories, and weight loss naturally slows. But there is a honeymoon period with WLS, and if someone is eating at or near their BMR is will generally slow losses, and squander this window.

Of the thousands of posts on stalls on this forum, and others, I have anecdotally concluded that stalls start and break absolutely independently of what anyone eats or does. But for bariatric patients eating consistently below your BMR does not leads to stalls or gains, anymore than anything else causes these, like breathing, or a full moon, or who wins the Super Bowl.

[🅺🅸🅼🅼🅸🅴🅺 296]

13 minutes ago, sillykitty said:

Be cautious about making these kind of statements on a bariatric forum. This is contrary to just about every program ever posted on this forum.

Most post op diets are very low calorie, VLC, at least at the beginning. A large caloric deficiency is the norm. This generally leads to rapid initial weight loss. And then as we heal and our stomachs naturally stretch a bit we eat more calories, and weight loss naturally slows. But there is a honeymoon period with WLS, and if someone is eating at or near their BMR is will generally slow losses, and squander this window.

Of the thousands of posts on stalls on this forum, and others, I have anecdotally concluded that stalls start and break absolutely independently of what anyone eats or does. But for bariatric patients eating consistently below your BMR does not leads to stalls or gains, anymore than anything else causes these, like breathing, or a full moon, or who wins the Super Bowl.

Right, that's why I always state I'm pre-op and I'm not sure how what I follow will translate to post-op people because a post-op person's physiology is completely changed.