Jump to content
×
Are you looking for the BariatricPal Store? Go now!

Dr. Atkins, pioneer of the ketogenic diet



Recommended Posts

11 hours ago, Creekimp13 said:

If we're being absolutely technical....since humans ARE great apes...indeed, our ancestors are great apes as well. I could have technically said Hominidea, our taxonomic family of great apes (which includes humans and the other great apes and our combined ancestors)...but I wanted to keep things simple for the sake of conversation.

Human beings are one such example.

A hominoid, commonly called an ape, is a member of the superfamily Hominoidea: extant members are the gibbons (lesser apes, family Hylobatidae) and the hominids. A hominid is a member of the family Hominidae, the great apes: orangutans, gorillas, chimpanzees, and humans.

We ARE great apes.

Yes, we are members of the taxonomic family Hominidae, and thus are great apes. Humans are also primates, mammals, chordates, animals, and Eukaryotes.

A taxonomic family is, according to the Biology Online Dictionary, "A taxonomic group of one or more genera, especially sharing a common attribute. . . Organisms belonging to the same family would have evolved from the same ancestors and share relatively common characteristics" (my emphasis).

12 hours ago, Creekimp13 said:

http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/genetics

From the perspective of this powerful test of biological kinship (DNA), humans are not only related to the great apes – we are one. The DNA evidence leaves us with one of the greatest surprises in biology: the wall between human, on the one hand, and ape, on the other, has been breached. The human evolutionary tree is embedded within the great apes.

primate-family-tree-780x520_0_0.gif

Well, in your own words:

The quote. . . Here's what follows in the text (my emphasis):

The strong similarities between humans and the African great apes led Charles Darwin in 1871 to predict that Africa was the likely place where the human lineage branched off from other animals – that is, the place where the common ancestor of chimpanzees, humans, and gorillas once lived. The DNA evidence shows an amazing confirmation of this daring prediction. The African great apes, including humans, have a closer kinship bond with one another than the African apes have with orangutans or other primates. Hardly ever has a scientific prediction so bold, so ‘out there’ for its time, been upheld as the one made in 1871 – that human evolution began in Africa.

The DNA evidence informs this conclusion, and the fossils do, too. Even though Europe and Asia were scoured for early human fossils long before Africa was even thought of, ongoing fossil discoveries confirm that the first 4 million years or so of human evolutionary history took place exclusively on the African continent. It is there that the search continues for fossils at or near the branching point of the chimpanzee and human lineages from our last common ancestor.

And the chart. Here's what it says above it (my emphasis):

"Primate Family Tree

Due to billions of years of evolution, humans share genes with all living organisms. The percentage of genes or DNA that organisms share records their similarities. We share more genes with organisms that are more closely related to us.

Humans belong to the biological group known as Primates, and are classified with the great apes, one of the major groups of the primate evolutionary tree. Besides similarities in anatomy and behavior, our close biological kinship with other primate species is indicated by DNA evidence. It confirms that our closest living biological relatives are chimpanzees and bonobos, with whom we share many traits. But we did not evolve directly from any primates living today.

DNA also shows that our species and chimpanzees diverged from a common ancestor species that lived between 8 and 6 million years ago. The last common ancestor of monkeys and apes lived about 25 million years ago"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Creekimp13 said:

If we're being absolutely technical

I suspect we are splitting hairs. But thanks for giving me something to think about besides my terror of gastric bypass! I don't work, so it's fun for me to be challenged a bit rather than surfing the web and watching TV. :) Stretching the brain feels good!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Charles Darwin also shared on his death bed no scientific

Proof of his original claim. And carbon dating was found to be not accurate in the mid 1970’s. No proof of the earth being more than 40-50 thousand years old. There was a huge study done on the 1968-75 proving previous Darwin theories non conclusive. Fyi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, clsumrall said:

Charles Darwin also shared on his death bed no scientific

Proof of his original claim. And carbon dating was found to be not accurate in the mid 1970’s. No proof of the earth being more than 40-50 thousand years old. There was a huge study done on the 1968-75 proving previous Darwin theories non conclusive. Fyi

What does Darwin have to do with modern evolutionary theory?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, clsumrall said:

Charles Darwin also shared on his death bed no scientific

Proof of his original claim. And carbon dating was found to be not accurate in the mid 1970’s. No proof of the earth being more than 40-50 thousand years old. There was a huge study done on the 1968-75 proving previous Darwin theories non conclusive. Fyi

Also:

Creationist literature itself disproves the "deathbed conversion" baloney: https://answersingenesis.org/creationism/arguments-to-avoid/darwins-deathbed-conversion-a-legend/

Regarding carbon dating: radiocarbon dating is also known as C14 dating, since it depends upon measuring the half-life of C-14, a radioactive isotope of carbon. When I was an archaeologist, we used it all the time when we found burned material, to get a date on the site we were excavating. That's because C14 dating only works within a timespan of up to about 60,000 years ago. Since it only works in that time frame, it has no bearing whatsoever on the age of the earth.

However, other kinds of radiometric dating work just fine, and prove the earth is over 4 billion years old. https://www.space.com/24854-how-old-is-earth.html

and if you want to get really technical:

https://ncse.com/cej/3/2/answers-to-creationist-attacks-carbon-14-dating

I can't answer to your "huge study" because you cite no evidence.

Edited by Conflicted
trying to create links.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, clsumrall said:

No proof of the earth being more than 40-50 thousand years old.

BAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, Conflicted said:

But we did not evolve directly from any primates living today.

Um...we're primates. So, we did. :) We're also Great Apes. So, again...we did:)

But you are correct that we did not evolve "from" animals like chimpanzees and gorillas.... However, we do share ancestors with them. Our family trees are intermingled. We're all Great Apes.

My point was not an origins discussion. (Though, I do enjoy that discussion!)

My point was that none of us are carnivores. None of us are meat-heavy omnivores, either.

Let's look at chimps and bonobos...with whom we share almost all of our DNA.

Only about 3% of a chimpanzee diet is composed of meat and about 2% eggs and insects. And this is very opportunistic. Chimps will eat meat about 9 days per year. Bonobos eat meat even more seldom than Chimps.

So, what do they eat regularly?

A metric feck-ton of Figs. fruit in volume. Nuts and seeds. Foliage, blossoms, leaves,bark, stems, fungus, roughage. And more figs. Lots and lots....of figs. Oh! And palm wine, sitting fermented in leaves. And honey and bugs. Did I mention figs?

My point....was that the natural Great Ape diet....is extremely carb dense. Our kidneys are set up to deal with a carb based diet, not a Protein based diet.

Protein is tough on the kidneys long term. Particularly, if you're not an animal who has a genetically evolved renal system to handle massive amounts of it.

Likewise....wheat and refined grains and refined sugars are not something our digestive systems were originally set up to handle. So, there's certainly a dark side to indiscriminate carb eating as well.

Eat more figs.

And, as always with crazy shite you read on the internet......take what you like, and leave the rest:)

food for thought.

teeth.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Creekimp13 said:
21 hours ago, Conflicted said:

But we did not evolve directly from any primates living today.

Um...we're primates. So, we did. :) We're also Great Apes. So, again...we did:)

You are misquoting me. I did not say that; I was quoting the article you posted to prove your point. But it specifically contradicts what you say.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not a contradiction at all....but it's funny:) The crux is that human beings are great apes. Our ancestors ARE great apes because that's what we are.

When the author of the article says "we did not evolve from any primates living today" I had to giggle...because I certainly evolved from my family...and last I checked...they were all primates! And heck...my mom is still living! LOL

(because...yes...human beings are primates...and great apes...even my mom!)

But what the author meant is that we didn't evolve directly "from" chimps and bonobos.....though we do share common ancestors with them...which is 100% in support of what I've said.

I think there's a lack of following each other's humor here...

And that's ok.

And again...none of this has anything to do with my point..... that nutritionally....human beings following Atkin's ideas....are taking a HUGE step away from what our bodies are designed to handle, and many in the medical community have deep concerns about that.

In particular....there are concerns about what a high animal Protein diet will do to the cardiovascular and renal system long term.

Time will tell. Lot of cool studies going on.

But if I had to place a bet....looking at the evidence available on what diets globally are correlated with the best health outcomes....best longevity, lowest incidence of cardiovascular disease, lowest incidence of cancer.....I'd put my money on the Mediterranean Diet or Japanese Diet....that coincidentally enough....have a strong emphasis on fruit, vegetation, plant protein, and Fiber and very moderate/rare animal protein consumption......just like Chimps and Bonobos:)

Edited by Creekimp13

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My husband the other day goes......taxonomy is really mean to the gibbons.

And I laughed.

Because for whatever reason...the poor gibbons are the ONLY apes who are "lesser apes". And it's not like there's some huge difference. They're a little smaller. They have less sexual dimorphism, and they don't make nests.

Is that really a reason to call someone 'Lesser"? LOL:)

Poor gibbons:)

Does he really think that that's "mean"? No...he was being conversationally charming.

This whole silly thread has reinforced the virtue that it's important to remember who your audience is when you write conversationally.

I will remember this in the future:)

Edited by Creekimp13

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On 4/30/2018 at 11:23 AM, Conflicted said:

If we're being absolutely technical....since humans ARE great apes...indeed, our ancestors are great apes as well.

I asked our local (masters-level) biology teacher about your logic here. I also asked my doctor, since I had an appointment today. Both say we share a common ancestor, from which point we took divergent paths (which is what I've been saying all along). They made me feel quite silly for asking. I was using your words, which you now say you did not mean.

3 hours ago, Creekimp13 said:

This whole silly thread has reinforced the virtue that it's important to remember who your audience is when you write conversationally.

You are very specific and seemingly scientific (not "conversational") when talking about your diet and human biology; why not do the same when talking of evolution?

I also resent your clear implication that remembering "who your audience is" means that I am somehow of lower intelligence. Though I will say I don't see a bit of humor in your tone, if that's what you were going for. This conversation is over. I suggest you spend 10 minutes talking to a biologist instead of cherrypicking internet articles to support your presuppositions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not implying you have lower intelligence. I'm implying you're not comprehending what I'm saying. Two very different things:) Your lack of ability to follow what I'm saying could easily be my fault. Absolutely!

I intend to spend hours talking to my biologist daughter tonight:) LOL. She's not at masters level yet (though she has taken graduate level anthropology courses as electives), but she'll have her Bachelors in a premed Microbiology program at the University of Michigan next fall. She's taking the GRE and MCAT this summer, going to grad school in 2019, and will study medical Entomology for her PhD. This summer she's working on a biological station research campus attempting to seduce a lab for a post doc position:) She's also going to an arachnology conference this summer in Yipsilanti because she's a spider nut.

If you'd like, I could also call my two biologist brothers. One is an MD, and one works in biochemical engineering.

I really have no idea why you're defensive and angry, nor do I particularly care:)

Good luck to ya! And best wishes on your weight loss journey!

Edited by Creekimp13

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Conflicted said:

I asked our local (masters-level) biology teacher about your logic here. I also asked my doctor, since I had an appointment today.

Ok...I once had a stalker who didn't think about me this much. I find it fascinating that I'm living rent free in your head.

I'm flattered, Love, but I'm a taken woman:(

25 years this year to the man who thinks gibbons got a rough deal:D

Edited by Creekimp13

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On 5/1/2018 at 6:31 PM, Creekimp13 said:

Ok...I once had a stalker who didn't think about me this much. I find it fascinating that I'm living rent free in your head.

I'm flattered, Love, but I'm a taken woman:(

25 years this year to the man who thinks gibbons got a rough deal:D

Oh, don't be silly. I asked them because I wanted to make sure I wasn't wrong. It's been a while since grad school, and science is always expanding its knowledge.

Plus the biology teacher is my brother so I talk to him daily anyways (My other brothers? Engineers. Weird). It just sounded better to say I talked to a biology teacher than "I asked my brother. . . ." or "I asked my dad. . . ." (Context, ya know. )

No stalking here, I assure you.

(Although I just realized the post I responded to on the mayo Clinic diet was yours--no stalking intended, I am genuinely curious.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just now, Conflicted said:

I find it fascinating that I'm living rent free in your head.

Not happening. Right now that guy from NCIS and his friend from New Orleans are living rent-free in my head, so there's no room for you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Trending Products

  • Trending Topics

  • Recent Status Updates

    • Prdgrdma

      So I guess after gastric bypass surgery, I cant eat flock chips because they are fried???  They sell them on here so I thought I could have them. So high in protein and no carbs.  They don't bother me at all.  Help. 
      · 1 reply
      1. NickelChip

        It's possible for a very high fat meal to cause dumping in some (30% or so) gastric bypass patients, although it's more likely to be triggered by high sugar, or by the high fat/high sugar combo (think ice cream, donuts). Dietitians will tell you to never do anything that isn't 100% healthy ever again. Realistically, you should aim for a good balance of protein, carbs, and fat each day. Should you eat fried foods every day? No. Is it possible they will make you sick? Maybe. Is it okay to eat some to see what happens and have them for a treat every now and again? Yes.

    • NovelTee

      I'm not at all hungry on this liquid pre-op diet, but I miss the sensation of chewing. It's been about two weeks––surgery is in two days––and I can't imagine how I'll feel a couple of weeks post-op. Tonight, I randomly stumbled upon a mukbang channel on YouTube, and it was strangely soothing... is it just me, or is this a thing? 
      · 1 reply
      1. NickelChip

        I actually watched cooking shows during my pre-op, like Great British Baking Show. It was a little bizarre, but didn't make me hungry. I think it was also soothing in a way.

    • Clueless_girl

      How do you figure out what your ideal weight should be? I've had a figure in my head for years, but after 3 mths of recovery I'm already almost there. So maybe my goal should be lower?
      · 3 replies
      1. NickelChip

        Well, there is actually a formula for "Ideal Body Weight" and you can use a calculator to figure it out for you. This one also does an adjusted weight for a person who starts out overweight or obese. https://www.mdcalc.com/calc/68/ideal-body-weight-adjusted-body-weight

        I would use that as a starting point, and then just see how you feel as you lose. How you look and feel is more important than a number.

      2. Clueless_girl

        I did find different calculators but I couldn't find any that accounted for body frame. But you're right, it is just a number. It was just disheartening to see that although I lost 60% of my excess weight, it's still not in the "normal/healthy" range..

      3. NickelChip

        I think it's important to remember that the weight charts and BMI ranges were developed a very long time ago and only intended to be applied to people who have never been overweight or obese. Those numbers aren't for us. When you are larger, especially for a long time, your body develops extra bone to support the weight. Your organs get a little bigger to handle the extra mass. Your entire infrastructure increases so you can support and function with the extra weight. That doesn't all go away just because you burn off the excess fat. If you still had a pair of jeans from your skinniest point in life and then lost weight to get to the exact number on the scale you were when those jeans fit you, chances are they would be a little baggy now because you would actually be thinner than you were, even though the scale and the BMI chart disagree. When in doubt, listen to the jeans, not the scale!

    • Aunty Mamo

      Tomorrow marks two weeks since surgery day and while I'm feeling remarkably well and going about just about every normal activity, I did wind up with a surface abscess on on of my incision sights and was put on an antibiotic that made me so impacted that it took me more than two hours to eliminate yesterday and scared the hell out of me. Now there's Miralax in all my beverages that aren't Smooth Move tea. I cannot experience that again. I shouldn't have to take Ativan to go to the lady's. I really looking forward to my body getting with the program again. 
      I'm in day three of the "puree" stage of eating and despite the strange textures, all of the savory flavors seem decadent. 
      I timed this surgery so that I'd be recovering during my spring break. That was a good plan. Today is a state holiday and the final day of break. I feel really strong to return to school tomorrow. 
      · 0 replies
      1. This update has no replies.
    • BeanitoDiego

      Now that I'm in maintenance mode, I'm getting a into a routine for my meals. Every day, I start out with 8-16 ounces of water, and then a proffee, which I have come to look forward to even the night before. My proffees are simply a black coffee with a protein powder added. There are three products that I cycle through: Premier Vanilla, Orgain Vanilla, and Dymatize Vanilla.
      For second breakfast on workdays, I will have a low-fat yogurt with two tablespoons of PBFit and two teaspoons of no sugar added dried cherries. I will have ingested 35-45 grams of protein at this point between the two breakfasts, with 250-285 calories, and about 20 carbs.
      For second breakfast on non-workdays, I will prepare two servings of plain, instant oatmeal with a tablespoon of an olive oil-based spread. This means I will have had 34 grams of protein, 365 calories, and 38 carbs. Non-workdays are when I am being very active with training sessions, so I allow myself more carbohydrate fuel.
      Snacks on any day are always mixed nuts, even when I am travelling. I will have 0.2 cups of a blend that I make myself. It consists of dry roasted peanuts, cashews, pumpkin seeds, sunflower seeds, pistachios, and Brazil nuts. This is 5 grams of protein, 163 calories, and 7 carbs.
      Breakfast and snacks have been the easiest to nail down. Lunch and dinner have more variables, and I prepare enough for leftovers. I concentrate on protein first, and then add vegetables. Typically tempeh, tofu, or Field Roast products with roasted or sautéed vegetables. Today, I will be eating leftovers from last night. Two ounces of tempeh with four ounces of roasted vegetables that consist of red and yellow sweet peppers, sweet potatoes, small purple potatoes, zucchini, and carrots. I will add a tablespoon of olive oil-based spread, break up 3 walnuts to sprinkle of top, and garnish with two tablespoons of grated Parmesan cheese. This particular meal will be 19 grams of protein, 377 calories, and 28 grams of carbs. Bear in mind that I do eat more carbs when I am not working, and I focus on ingesting healthy carbs instead of breads/crackers/chips/crisps.
      It's a helluva journey and I'm thankful to be on it!
       
      · 0 replies
      1. This update has no replies.
  • Recent Topics

  • Hot Products

  • Sign Up For
    Our Newsletter

    Follow us for the latest news
    and special product offers!
  • Together, we have lost...
      lbs

    PatchAid Vitamin Patches

    ×