Considering cancelling surgery

[sillykitty 10,704]

8 hours ago, KatFight said:

You must be kidding me. Of course the surgeon doesn’t “cut someone open to verify the size of the liver.” It was determined when surgery was attempted that the liver was too large. It does happens that’s why there’s a protocol prior to a surgery date. It’s dangerous to have too big of a liver and it puts the patient and doctor at risk. A Center of Excellence is comprised of surgeons who do not want to place patients in unsafe situations so no, they are not expected to move your too big liver to satisfy your wants.

You seem to be someone who wants to go against medical protocol. Each to their own. My preference was to listen. 😡

I'm sorry, I agree with @aNYCdb that this sounds like a scare tactic. First, many surgeons have successful outcomes with little to no preop diet, including my surgeon (and my surgery was at a COE). Second, of all the stories on here, have we ever had a surgeon sewed me back up story? Third, if a surgeon was that concerned about the size of the liver, then why would they wait until they have gotten in there. They would rely on blood test or ultrasound. Getting someone into the OR, opening them up and not doing surgery would cost the surgeon money.

[sideeye 1,440]

Quote

Hi @sideye. You were fortunate that your liver was no issue but to tell someone who is pre-surgery that there is no concern in that bc of how your dr did things is ill-advised. My surgeon is the founder of a Center of Excellence and has had to sew many patients back up who failed to follow directions and their livers were too large. Be careful of dispensing advice contrary to medical advice. Very dangerous.

I'm not giving contrary medical advice or telling the poster to ignore the advice of their surgeon, just pointing out that there's not universal consensus on this topic, so eating a couple of chicken nuggets during pre-op is not worth ginning yourself up into a tizzy. Be 100% honest with your surgeon at all times, but don't freak out about cheating just because some people on these boards have gotten dire warnings from their surgeons that if they break the pre-op diet they'll go into surgery and come back out with a couple of holes in them and no procedure done. The poster's initial concern was the level of strict adherence they saw advocated on this board - I saw the same thing pre-op and it's why I quizzed my doc about the lack of pre-op diet and the size of my liver.

From what I've heard (and the heavy implication from my doc), the liver thing is mostly a scare tactic. It also makes no logical sense - there are plenty of ways to gauge liver size without booking an operating room and team and putting someone under anesthetic and cutting into them, all enormous risks compared to an ultrasound. My doc said he'd never closed a patient due to liver size after thousands of procedures, and seemed to think the entire question was a bit ridiculous. Clearly from what I read on this site, for most people who heard it the scare tactic was effective.

Moral of the story being: don't freak yourself out because of what people on the internet say about their experience. Talk to your surgeon, be 100% honest and get the facts.

Edited March 28, 2018 by sideeye

[ProudGrammy 8,322]

21 hours ago, FluffyChix said:

I think the statistics are that at 5 years more than 80% have regained on average of 50% of their weight.

Here i Am, Here I am

5'3" standing 6'' tall

6+ years

GOAL

ok,ok, small regain - will have off very soon!!

[FluffyChix 17,409]

45 minutes ago, proudgrammy said:

Here i Am,Here I am

5"3 standing 6" tall

6+ years

GOAL

ok,ok, small regain - will have off very soon!!

Kathy, just fyi, there's no way on God's green earth that I would lump you or any of the other uber-successful vets on this forum (and on other forums) into this group. You actually are one of the first peeps I think of as part of the super successful outliers who have far surpassed any statistics.

But of course your super-success adds in to average that makes up that 50%. So what does THAT really say about the very bad lows in the group who bring the average down? It means there are people in that average who've gained WELL over 50% of their weight back...like 100% of regain, because there are many vets her at 5 years who've lost and maintained 100% of their excess weight or are even below goal.

But then, I lump them into the do-or-die group of super success stories.

Edited March 28, 2018 by FluffyChix

[FluffyChix 17,409]

For those who think the big liver thing is a scare tactic. You should go netflix Big Ward and watch I think it was maybe Episode 6 where despite losing weight on her pre-op diet, the woman had such a secret addiction to sugar, she hid candy and cakes all over her trailer. And ate them right up to before surgery.

The doctor could literally NOT find a way into her stomach around her liver because it was that engorged. And he started to pull out. But they had to do more gyrations and positions to try to find a way in and it was extremely risky. He said it would have been one of the only times he couldn't do surgery and that he put that surgery at the top of his list for risky procedures where she was at risk of dying on the table.

[erika702 16]

For those who think the big liver thing is a scare tactic. You should go netflix Big Ward and watch I think it was maybe Episode 6 where despite losing weight on her pre-op diet, the woman had such a secret addiction to sugar, she hid candy and cakes all over her trailer. And ate them right up to before surgery.
The doctor could literally NOT find a way into her stomach around her liver because it was that engorged. And he started to pull out. But they had to do more gyrations and positions to try to find a way in and it was extremely risky. He said it would have been one of the only times he couldn't do surgery and that he put that surgery at the top of his list for risky procedures where she was at risk of dying on the table.

Currently watching! Thanks!

[charismatic 80]

For those who think the big liver thing is a scare tactic. You should go netflix Big Ward and watch I think it was maybe Episode 6 where despite losing weight on her pre-op diet, the woman had such a secret addiction to sugar, she hid candy and cakes all over her trailer. And ate them right up to before surgery.
The doctor could literally NOT find a way into her stomach around her liver because it was that engorged. And he started to pull out. But they had to do more gyrations and positions to try to find a way in and it was extremely risky. He said it would have been one of the only times he couldn't do surgery and that he put that surgery at the top of his list for risky procedures where she was at risk of dying on the table.

Funny. I saw that episode and thought it was staged. The surgeon was so full of drama, I don’t like his “character”.

I also found it odd that her candy stash was always brand new unopened bags. I would think some of them should have been open. Just seemed pretty staged to me.

The the girl that ate at plate full of sandwiches - we never saw her eat them all. I always wonder about shows like this. I mean do people really sit and eat 2 large pizzas in a sitting? Based on stomach size how do they do that?

[FluffyChix 17,409]

As a girl, pre-surgery, there was a time when I could polish off a large thick crust, extra cheese, super supreme pizza from Piggy Pies. It was NOT my finest hour. Also, have you ever lived with or had an alcoholic in your family, who hid booze? My grandfather had unopened pints of booze hidden everywhere in his house.

Is it staged? Or not? I can't answer that--I'm not a producer. But I do believe this happens in real life--even if the show is a dramatization. You're entitled to your opinion.

I actually love this doc. So to each his or her own.

(side note: it IS interesting that I don't remember ever talking to you before and you come in and comment here suddenly out of the blue -- you don't have any stats posted beyond your low low post and like count. LOL. So why not take a minute and go fill out your profile and signature ticker so we can get to know you better?)

Edited March 28, 2018 by FluffyChix

[sillykitty 10,704]

34 minutes ago, FluffyChix said:

For those who think the big liver thing is a scare tactic. You should go netflix Big Ward and watch I think it was maybe Episode 6 where despite losing weight on her pre-op diet, the woman had such a secret addiction to sugar, she hid candy and cakes all over her trailer. And ate them right up to before surgery.

The doctor could literally NOT find a way into her stomach around her liver because it was that engorged. And he started to pull out. But they had to do more gyrations and positions to try to find a way in and it was extremely risky. He said it would have been one of the only times he couldn't do surgery and that he put that surgery at the top of his list for risky procedures where she was at risk of dying on the table.

I just watched this (S1 E4 btw), and I don't think this disproves the scare tactic point. So this woman was extreme, binge-ing on sugar and carbs up to surgery, which is different than cheating on a preop diet. But the surgeon still completed the surgery, said it "has gone ok, just took much longer than usual". He also said this was the first time he has even considered not completing the surgery, out of 600. This tells me that once the procedure has begun, the surgeon is highly motivated to go through with it.

I'm not saying that not following your pre op diet (if you have one) is a good idea, or that having an enlarged liver doesn't have risks. I'm saying that the likelihood of your surgeon starting, and then pulling out of the procedure is slim.

[erika702 16]

This post went from 0 to 100 real quick. Thanks everyone for their comments but now im more motivated to go on with surgery.

[WoodyDNA 3]

What they all said. What you're feeling is normal. For me, this whole process is 90% mind over matter, the rest is food and exercise. You got this. Get your mind right. God didn't open this door for you to close it. Let's do this.

[KatFight 207]

3 hours ago, sideeye said:

I'm not giving contrary medical advice or telling the poster to ignore the advice of their surgeon, just pointing out that there's not universal consensus on this topic, so eating a couple of chicken nuggets during pre-op is not worth ginning yourself up into a tizzy. Be 100% honest with your surgeon at all times, but don't freak out about cheating just because some people on these boards have gotten dire warnings from their surgeons that if they break the pre-op diet they'll go into surgery and come back out with a couple of holes in them and no procedure done. The poster's initial concern was the level of strict adherence they saw advocated on this board - I saw the same thing pre-op and it's why I quizzed my doc about the lack of pre-op diet and the size of my liver.

From what I've heard (and the heavy implication from my doc), the liver thing is mostly a scare tactic. It also makes no logical sense - there are plenty of ways to gauge liver size without booking an operating room and team and putting someone under anesthetic and cutting into them, all enormous risks compared to an ultrasound. My doc said he'd never closed a patient due to liver size after thousands of procedures, and seemed to think the entire question was a bit ridiculous. Clearly from what I read on this site, for most people who heard it the scare tactic was effective.

Moral of the story being: don't freak yourself out because of what people on the internet say about their experience. Talk to your surgeon, be 100% honest and get the facts.

I completely agree with you. 😀

[KatFight 207]

3 hours ago, sillykitty said:

I'm sorry, I agree with @aNYCdb that this sounds like a scare tactic. First, many surgeons have successful outcomes with little to no preop diet, including my surgeon (and my surgery was at a COE). Second, of all the stories on here, have we ever had a surgeon sewed me back up story? Third, if a surgeon was that concerned about the size of the liver, then why would they wait until they have gotten in there. They would rely on blood test or ultrasound. Getting someone into the OR, opening them up and not doing surgery would cost the surgeon money.

It happens. We can agree to disagree. The surgeon trusts that the patient has followed the pre-surgery diet when he/she says they have and may not know the size of liver until surgery. Ultrasounds to check liver size were not done where I went. Perhaps they’re done on people with even more weight to lose. I don’t get hung up on whether or not anyone has posted a “sewed me back up story.” This site is a small percentage of people in comparison to all of those out there who’ve had surgery. It’s interesting that you and @aNYCdb know just what my surgeon should do. All I shared was what I was told. In no way is the surgeon doing surgery just to see if the liver is small enough. We all, as patients, have a responsibility too to follow pre-surgery medical directions. And, in terms of costs vs. safety for both the surgeon and patient...I have no idea nor do I really care to know if the surgeon takes a loss financially.

I appreciate that we can all share our opinions and agree or disagree. I really like your name @sillykitty. We can still all be friends. 🐈

[KatFight 207]

1 hour ago, erika702 said:

This post went from 0 to 100 real quick. Thanks everyone for their comments but now im more motivated to go on with surgery.

Yes, it did. I want to clarify that I was referring to cheating on the 3 day pre-surgery liquid diet and that’s why I suggested speaking with your surgeon or nurses.

I wish all the best, Erica. This is an amazing ride. 🌺

[charismatic 80]

As a girl, pre-surgery, there was a time when I could polish off a large thick crust, extra cheese, super supreme pizza from Piggy Pies. It was NOT my finest hour. Also, have you ever lived with or had an alcoholic in your family, who hid booze? My grandfather had unopened pints of booze hidden everywhere in his house.
Is it staged? Or not? I can't answer that--I'm not a producer. But I do believe this happens in real life--even if the show is a dramatization. You're entitled to your opinion.
I actually love this doc. So to each his or her own.
(side note: it IS interesting that I don't remember ever talking to you before and you come in and comment here suddenly out of the blue -- you don't have any stats posted beyond your low low post and like count. LOL. So why not take a minute and go fill out your profile and signature ticker so we can get to know you better?)

My comment was not out of the blue. I’ve been commenting since I joined, guess it just depends on the topic.

I’m an app user so I don’t even see an option to fill out a profile - thought that was odd when I joined but it didn’t bother me.

Not ready for a ticker anyway.. my weight will go unspoken until I hit my first goal. Fortunately things are progressing well that it shouldn’t be too long.