Why do we fall off the wagon? & How to get back on?

[Newme17 3,444]

9 hours ago, Introversion said:

it is very much possible to overindulge with any type of weight loss surgery.

Agreed. Can only do this by changing your mindset about food. My sister had a bypass and gained everything back and then some. So if your mind is totally changed, good. If not, it's a slippery slope. Hope everyone has changed their relationship or in the progress of it-I'm still in progress and it's nice to be mindful of it with how my body responds. I don't believe for one sec that someone has a surgery and it's not successful due to eating healthy and having healthy portions. Only bad habits get us back to square one or worse.

[gwbicster 257]

Ms. Brown- I am with you. I don't have any answers for you or for me- I am still searching. But I just wanted to say- sending good thoughts your way.

[MsBrown76 43]

Thanks same to you! This too shall pass.

[Introversion 1,876]

2 hours ago, MsBrown76 said:

I thank you for your kind words.

And thank you for reaching out for help. It takes a great deal of courage to admit there's a problem, and even more courage to ask for assistance in solving it.

In this day and age, too many people complain about problems but refuse to resolve them. It's as if they find comfort in the art of complaining. So it's refreshing that you want to tackle your issue.

I'll be rooting for you.

[MsBrown76 43]

On 7/17/2017 at 10:23 AM, Introversion said:

And thank you for reaching out for help. It takes a great deal of courage to admit there's a problem, and even more courage to ask for assistance in solving it.

In this day and age, too many people complain about problems but refuse to resolve them. It's as if they find comfort in the art of complaining. So it's refreshing that you want to tackle your issue.

I'll be rooting for you.

So far so good on day two of my five day pouch reset. My pouch still works thank God! After talking with others who've had WLS I was eating too many slider foods so I was able to eat more never feeling full. Plus nibbling every few minutes thereafter to eat more. In addition to trying to drink liquids with meals (hurts) but needed to help the food go down (that's how I justified it).

My fear of my pouch not working drove me towards slider foods as comfort. While my husband is supportive of me he couldn't help me understand what I was fully doing. I'm thankful to this community for giving me the unedited version of what I needed to hear, and how to get back on track.

Started reset 7/17 at 5am at 242lbs by 9pm 238lbs.

As of 6am today 236lbs Water weight I'm sure, but I'm in progress to getting back on track.

Goal 216

[Greensleevie 451]

It's SO easy to be cocky newly post op (1-2 years). I remember. You think you have the tiger by the tail.

Then the honeymoon period ends.

Suddenly, you're hungrier. You can eat more. You've settled into "boring" maintenance. You no longer have the thrill of the scale moving downward. People are used to how you look now, and you aren't getting the validation of constant compliments on how great you look. You're fully healed and feel as normal as you did before surgery, and sometimes you're alarmed by how much more you can eat and how much hungrier you are. Behavior fatigue sets in, and you push the limits of how much sugar or alcohol or carbs you can consume before you see a gain. After all, you pretty much could still lose early out even after the occasional splurge. And if you did gain a pound or two, a couple days of cutting back on carbs and some extra Water, it came right back off. Until you discover it doesn't work that way anymore. You gain much easier now for seemingly no reason, and no matter how hard you try, the weight won't come back off like it did before. You become complacent, almost accepting a 5, 10, or even 20 pound gain because it becomes so hard to lose it again. We won't even talk about the guilt and self loathing regain causes. You feel like a failure (even though you really aren't).

A fairly new post op has no idea the struggles people 3, 4, 5 years out and more have, so telling people to just suck it up and have more willpower is utter bullshit.

Edited July 19, 2017 by Greensleevie

[Introversion 1,876]

23 minutes ago, Greensleevie said:

It's SO easy to be cocky newly post op (1-2 years). I remember. You think you have the tiger by the tail.

Bingo. You hit the nail on the head. People with brand new sleeves or fresh gastric bypass pouches often do not realize the stones that lie in the road ahead.

Initially, surgery alters a person's biochemistry favorably to promote weight loss through hormonal changes. This is known as the honeymoon period. In the beginning, the surgically altered person has a diminished appetite and can lose weight without a great deal of effort.

But over the years, the intestines become more efficient at caloric absorption, especially in those who have undergone gastric bypass. This phenomenon is known as intestinal adaptation. Intestinal villi adapt to being bypassed by enlarging and increasing their surface area to absorb more calories, priming people for weight regain.

The bariatric surgery patient is several years out and scratching his/her head, wondering why the number on the scale creeps upward rapidly even though eating habits are the same as before. They don't realize that the human body is a marvelous piece of art that will find any way to extract every last energy source (read: calories).

Sleeve and lap band patients usually regain by backsliding into bad habits. Gastric bypass patients often regain via the intestinal adaptation phenomenon discussed earlier, but backsliding into bad habits is also a noteworthy culprit.

Most obese and formerly obese persons have bodies that favor fat storage rather than fat burning. Hormonally, there are differences between us and our naturally thin counterparts.

Obesity is not curable, ever. Obesity can be forced into remission by achieving a normal body weight, but our bodies will always fight to get back to where they once were regardless of weight loss surgery.

[Apple1 2,572]

6 hours ago, Introversion said:

Obesity is not curable, ever. Obesity can be forced into remission by achieving a normal body weight, but our bodies will always fight to get back to where they once were regardless of weight loss surgery.

I wonder if this true for individuals that weren't always heavy, but gained their weight due to thyroid issues and developing insulin resistance? I started gaining weight at 39-40 and just couldn't get it off.

I have no doubt that maintenance is going to be hard. That is why I am doing my best to take the advice of the vets here. I am developing good habits and have started running 4 days a week. I hope these things will be enough to help me when I get there.

[Jeffrey Stern 53]

Well to all those who are saying how easy it is to so called "slide down the slippery slope" or hit "those rocks in the road" and us newbies who "have the tiger by the tail" and every other idiom out there all say that you obviously weren't mentally ready to engage in this new world of self awareness.

Again...having surgery which ever method you decide to have..lap band, sleeve, or bypass... THIS IS NOT MAGIC SURGERY. It does not give you the permission to go out after words to the nearest buffet or fast food place or buy a family size bag of potato chips, and think OOHHH boy I had some magic surgery now I can eat anything I want (not to mention the unmentionable...exercise) . NO NO NO. So you need to decide am I going to be successful at this or not.

If you are making excuses like "nobody is validating me any more" ... you're becoming healthier ..are you doing this for them or yourself? I'm going to try eating more sugar...why? I personally have type 2 diabetes and got so tired of taking large amounts of insulin everyday. I can't drink alcohol any more... boo hoo...maybe you have another issue to deal with?? What's an occasional splurge ? really? Cut out carbs all together.. again I made a decision to not eat carbs/ gluten anymore. There are so many subs to replace all the bread, rice, and Pasta you crave. Try some.

Any one of your Nuts out there will tell you if your putting more calories in your body than your burning your doing something wrong. SO NO SLIDDERS !

So if all you who have been out for 3 or 4 or 5 yrs plus have just forgotten why you had the surgery to begin with. Maybe you need a second so called "HONEYMOON" a few of you mention all the failures out there...what about all the successes !!! which I will be one of...It's not BULLSHIT...

Obesity is manageable. Some of us need extra help such as the surgery of your choice...but healthy eating is a close second option. So make all the excuses you want. That's what they are EXCUSES. Nobody has a gun to your head saying eat that junk.. it was all your decision. So hate me all you want I will talk to you in 3 or 4 or 5 yrs from now and still be on my "HONEYMOON".

[Berry78 4,259]

7 hours ago, Introversion said:

Obesity is not curable, ever. Obesity can be forced into remission by achieving a normal body weight, but our bodies will always fight to get back to where they once were regardless of weight loss surgery.

If we are to believe the set-point theory, then this is true pre-op. It SHOULDN'T be true post-op, if the surgery does, indeed, reset our set-points, as seems to be the case with the rats.

You've read the study on bariatric rats, right? Obese rats have the surgery, lose to normal weights (on a restricted diet), then when fed free-choice again, they maintain their losses, and continue being normal rats.

The difference between rats and people is the rats don't have emotional issues or head hunger. They eat when they're hungry (and they were fed healthy rat-chow, not doughnuts!), stop when they're full.

Our new set points may not be "normal weight". There is good reason to believe it is something higher than that (like retaining 30% of excess weight). But the losses to that point should be relatively easy and straightforward, and relatively easily maintained. We just have to eat like the rats.

[Introversion 1,876]

3 hours ago, Jeffrey Stern said:

So hate me all you want

I don't think anyone on this forum 'hates' you. Personally, it isn't worth my energy to hate an individual with whom I'm not acquainted in real life.

Let me get one thing straight...I've never regained. I maintain a lowish body weight of 118 to 120 pounds via making decent food choices and maintaining high activity levels, yet you speak as if everyone who sounds the alarm has failed at their post-WLS maintenance efforts.

Also, sounding the alarm is not synonymous with excuses.

[Greensleevie 451]

11 hours ago, Introversion said:

Bingo. You hit the nail on the head. People with brand new sleeves or fresh gastric bypass pouches often do not realize the stones that lie in the road ahead.

Initially, surgery alters a person's biochemistry favorably to promote weight loss through hormonal changes. This is known as the honeymoon period. In the beginning, the surgically altered person has a diminished appetite and can lose weight without a great deal of effort.

But over the years, the intestines become more efficient at caloric absorption, especially in those who have undergone gastric bypass. This phenomenon is known as intestinal adaptation. Intestinal villi adapt to being bypassed by enlarging and increasing their surface area to absorb more calories, priming people for weight regain.

The bariatric surgery patient is several years out and scratching his/her head, wondering why the number on the scale creeps upward rapidly even though eating habits are the same as before. They don't realize that the human body is a marvelous piece of art that will find any way to extract every last energy source (read: calories).

Sleeve and lap band patients usually regain by backsliding into bad habits. Gastric bypass patients often regain via the intestinal adaptation phenomenon discussed earlier, but backsliding into bad habits is also a noteworthy culprit.

Most obese and formerly obese persons have bodies that favor fat storage rather than fat burning. Hormonally, there are differences between us and our naturally thin counterparts.

Obesity is not curable, ever. Obesity can be forced into remission by achieving a normal body weight, but our bodies will always fight to get back to where they once were regardless of weight loss surgery.

YES, YES AND YES!

[Greensleevie 451]

4 hours ago, Jeffrey Stern said:

Well to all those who are saying how easy it is to so called "slide down the slippery slope" or hit "those rocks in the road" and us newbies who "have the tiger by the tail" and every other idiom out there all say that you obviously weren't mentally ready to engage in this new world of self awareness.

Again...having surgery which ever method you decide to have..lap band, sleeve, or bypass... THIS IS NOT MAGIC SURGERY. It does not give you the permission to go out after words to the nearest buffet or fast food place or buy a family size bag of potato chips, and think OOHHH boy I had some magic surgery now I can eat anything I want (not to mention the unmentionable...exercise) . NO NO NO. So you need to decide am I going to be successful at this or not.

If you are making excuses like "nobody is validating me any more" ... you're becoming healthier ..are you doing this for them or yourself? I'm going to try eating more sugar...why? I personally have type 2 diabetes and got so tired of taking large amounts of insulin everyday. I can't drink alcohol any more... boo hoo...maybe you have another issue to deal with?? What's an occasional splurge ? really? Cut out carbs all together.. again I made a decision to not eat carbs/ gluten anymore. There are so many subs to replace all the bread, rice, and Pasta you crave. Try some.

Any one of your Nuts out there will tell you if your putting more calories in your body than your burning your doing something wrong. SO NO SLIDDERS !

So if all you who have been out for 3 or 4 or 5 yrs plus have just forgotten why you had the surgery to begin with. Maybe you need a second so called "HONEYMOON" a few of you mention all the failures out there...what about all the successes !!! which I will be one of...It's not BULLSHIT...

Obesity is manageable. Some of us need extra help such as the surgery of your choice...but healthy eating is a close second option. So make all the excuses you want. That's what they are EXCUSES. Nobody has a gun to your head saying eat that junk.. it was all your decision. So hate me all you want I will talk to you in 3 or 4 or 5 yrs from now and still be on my "HONEYMOON".

*Clicks profile*

"Surgery date 4/30/17".

Yup. I remember thinking I had it all together, too. It's easy when you're not hungry and the weight is falling off effortlessly.

Glad you have this ALL figured out at a whole 2 months post op.

I never understood how people presume to know what the future holds when they have no idea what challenges lie ahead? How immature.

Are we saying you're absolutely going to be one of the almost 50% of people who are going to gain some or all of their weight back? No. We are saying to KEEP that from happening, you need to be aware of the pitfalls to PREVENT it from happening.

You no more know what's going happen 3 years down the road at 3 months post op as I do 6 years down the road at 3.5 years post op. You can at least admit that, right?

[Berry78 4,259]

OutsideMatchesInside hit the nail on the head with her new post. We keep seeing regain threads popping up like dandelions in my lawn (I actually love them, so don't do anything to eradicate them .. therefore there are a TON).

Anyhoo.. since there aren't many threads with successful people telling their long term successes.. (and the few that we do see, basically say the same thing, "Stick to the program").. that how else are we to respond, even without having been there, done that?

[Greensleevie 451]

Also, I work in addiction. You know the first indicator I see when I know someone is going to relapse?

They swear they are NEVER going back to drugs or alcohol.

They don't have enough insight to understand that absolutes and extremes just don't work in the real world with real world challenges. They get blindsided when they happen and deal with them the only way they know how....resorting back to their old self destructive behaviors.

The more successful clients understand that although they can't promise they won't ever go back, they will work their programs the best they can, use the tools they've been given and deal with the challenges they know will happen as they come in order to be successful. They don't assume to know it all, either.

Edited July 19, 2017 by Greensleevie