Jump to content
×
Are you looking for the BariatricPal Store? Go now!

Recommended Posts

Well, I did not make anything 'bold'...

I merely typed and tried posting (only to be shown a 'cannot reach server' message).. I didn't even know the comment was eventually posted.

In any case, It is an advice to people in general not to just you..

I am just tired of people jumping on every research piece that come out as if it is some gospel truth or some hard set principle.

As for the 'demonology' part, it is still a poorly researched field. I will get back to you as soon as there is more data.. [emoji4]

Edited by Middus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I did modified Keto for almost a year before I had surgery. I lost 15 lbs initially then went off it when my father died. I utilized modified keto in the 6 months prior to surgery and lost 30lbs on my own.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Middus said:

Well, I did not make anything 'bold'...

I merely typed and tried posting (only to be shown a 'cannot reach server' message).. I didn't even know the comment was eventually posted.

In any case, It is an advice to people in general not to just you..

I am just tired of people jumping on every research piece that come out as if it is some gospel truth or some hard set principle.

As for the 'demonology' part, it is still a poorly researched field. I will get back to you as soon as there is more data.. emoji4.png

Any cursory search of med journals reveals results synonymous to this paper. While there is long term data lacking the same can be said of the VSG itself yet its clear efficacy makes it justified, just like this diet. And reminder: this thread is about the Keto diet. I haven't read all posts here but I don't usually see diet fanaticism. My issue is bashing the diet and equating it to pseudo science when there is already real science out there. While there are lazy people who give credence to fad diets of all variety, it makes no difference to the science behind the efficacy of this one when done properly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, PatientEleventyBillion said:

Any cursory search of med journals reveals results synonymous to this paper. While there is long term data lacking the same can be said of the VSG itself yet its clear efficacy makes it justified, just like this diet. And reminder: this thread is about the Keto diet. I haven't read all posts here but I don't usually see diet fanaticism. My issue is bashing the diet and equating it to pseudo science when there is already real science out there. While there are lazy people who give credence to fad diets of all variety, it makes no difference to the science behind the efficacy of this one when done properly.

That's the funny thing about Keto diet research. It has been demonstrated to work in the short term..
long term studies show non significant to non clinical differences. The health concerns about long term keto diets have however, been allayed in the same studies. It was feared that it may alter lipid homeostasis in obese individuals and some studies have shown that it isn't the case.
Cursory search is one thing, meta analyses is another thing. I have zero interest in bashing or praising. Just saying there are no set rules to this thing..
Even Bariatric Surgery has had its issues going forwards. It was a suggested 'solution'. Now it has been downgraded to a 'tool' you use to work towards a solution.. because research.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On 4/12/2017 at 3:23 AM, Christina.Rose said:

Is Keto basically a new age name for the Atkins diet? It sounds awfully familiar, high fat low carb, body in ketosis.....


Nope.

Although Atkins was close to Keto. The original Atkins diet by Dr Atkins, the diet has been really bastardized since his death. All those trash products they sell in the store are pretty against his teaching.

Keto has a lot of science and studies to back it up.

I feel like if people can't process or understand the science of running the body on fat they shouldn't even bother. I see so many people making bad choices on Facebook etc and they don't understand the science. If you understand the science it is so easy to make the right choices.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, Middus said:

That's the funny thing about Keto diet research. It has been demonstrated to work in the short term..
long term studies show non significant to non clinical differences. The health concerns about long term keto diets have however, been allayed in the same studies. It was feared that it may alter lipid homeostasis in obese individuals and some studies have shown that it isn't the case.
Cursory search is one thing, meta analyses is another thing. I have zero interest in bashing or praising. Just saying there are no set rules to this thing..
Even Bariatric Surgery has had its issues going forwards. It was a suggested 'solution'. Now it has been downgraded to a 'tool' you use to work towards a solution.. because research.

The data used in the link I provided does provide as much data as is available. It's why I cited it rather than one of the journals where you see the results but no data, or where other people would have to pay for access to see the data. Nothing is perfect, but as pointed out earlier, whatever diet that someone can comply with that is healthy is likely the best for them. For some this is the keto diet. In my case, my pre-operative weight loss was exclusively because of this diet after the misery of the first few weeks attempting a liquid diet drinking carb-laden "Glucerna" which is supposed to be for diabetics, yet was demanded by my RD. What I find more about people on the keto diet is they tend to be more informed about the effects of it. Vastly different than the similar Atkins fad where people had no idea what they were doing, just jumping on a bandwagon because commercials.

Edited by PatientEleventyBillion

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

53 minutes ago, Middus said:

That's the funny thing about Keto diet research. It has been demonstrated to work in the short term..
long term studies show non significant to non clinical differences. The health concerns about long term keto diets have however, been allayed in the same studies. It was feared that it may alter lipid homeostasis in obese individuals and some studies have shown that it isn't the case.
Cursory search is one thing, meta analyses is another thing. I have zero interest in bashing or praising. Just saying there are no set rules to this thing..
Even Bariatric Surgery has had its issues going forwards. It was a suggested 'solution'. Now it has been downgraded to a 'tool' you use to work towards a solution.. because research.

If you actually ever did any research or read any studies about high fat diets, you would have never even posted the first 2 sentences, because there are numerous studies not to mention several cultures through out the world that have been eating this way for hundreds if not thousands of years.

Which is why I suggest readying a book by scientists and not reading bro science on the internet.

Most of the studies I could link are behind educational walls. I did years of research on this before deciding on it. It isn't just a fad diet or pseudo science which is why I tell people not to even bother if they aren't will to make a life long lifestyle change or it flat out won't work for you.

You can't just Keto for a while stop pounds and go back to pizza. The same way you have to make life long changes for WLS to be effective long term.

I know talking about science here is kind of a non starter since 99.9% of people that post here don't even understand the difference between weight and volume. Science is beyond most people, don't even get me on understanding stats. I know everyone doesn't have a STEM degree but damn.

Edited by OutsideMatchInside

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, OutsideMatchInside said:

If you actually ever did any research or read any studies about high fat diets, you would have never even posted the first 2 sentences, because there are numerous studies not to mention several cultures through out the world that have been eating this way for hundreds if not thousands of years.

Which is why I suggest readying a book by scientists and not reading bro science on the internet.

Most of the studies I could link are behind educational walls. I did years of research on this before deciding on it. It isn't just a fad diet or pseudo science which is why I tell people not to even bother if they aren't will to make a life long lifestyle change or it flat out won't work for you.

You can't just Keto for a while stop pounds and go back to pizza. The same way you have to make life long changes for WLS to be effective long term.

I know talking about science here is kind of a non starter since 99.9% of people that post here don't even understand the difference between weight and volume. Science is beyond most people, don't even get me on understanding stats. I know everyone doesn't have a STEM degree but damn.

Easy with the high horse. Some of us currently hide behind said academic walls with dubiously obtained doctorates in Epidemiology. I suppose that in 'T.A-ing' 2 nutritional Epi courses, I must have passed along tons of 'crappy science' to students right? That's irrelevant to this topic anyway.

I don't know why you're going on about Keto not being a fad, as if I said so somewhere. I just repeated what some studies said. On another post when I mentioned contrary study findings, you deemed them to be wrong, because they didn't agree with your "undoubtedly lengthy, and peer reviewed" research.

oh well, I have said my piece.. moving on....

Edited by Middus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On 4/12/2017 at 4:02 AM, Afrikanaaa said:

With Keto and sleeve do you monitor more of your calorie count or focus more on fat & protein/g consumption? Because in reading the Reddit thread, people don't have restrictive stomachs like we do

Most people that long term Keto are calories aware, even if they aren't strict even with non restrictive stomach. Long term successful people fast also, which I do. A high fat diet makes it easy to fast (the original purpose of bulletproof coffee, to extend a fast). Fasting has its own benefits and I'm not even going to go too far into that

First it is really important to know your body composition you can calculate your macros correctly. Most people that really Keto track (I notice anyone that is successful at any kind of way of eating or diet tracks). I use a Keto calculator and peg my Protein to my lean mass 1g per 1 pound.

This one is good

https://ketogains.com/ketogains-calculator/

The math on that one is supposed to be better but I use this one because I like it better because of the loss projection chart.

https://keto-calculator.ankerl.com/

As a sleever if you are meeting your protein goals, it is going to be almost impossible to get your calories too high just because of the low calorie count of protein, the density of protein and restriction. If I didn't use heavy cream in my coffee, I would never hit my fat goals. 120 grams of protein a day doesn't leave much room for anything else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OutsideMatchInside I think pinned it down with talking about people's body composition. I rarely find people suggest that everyone benefits equally or everyone should do this diet, because everyones tolerance, discipline, comorbidities, genetics, etc. are not the same.

But that isn't the issue, the issue is suggesting the Keto diet has no scientific basis, which is 100% wrong.

Edited by PatientEleventyBillion

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I am not a scientist on this at all but...here is a little bit of our humans going on the Atkins DIET. There were 4 of us. My self, my hubby , my sister in law and my brother in law. We decided that we would go on the ATKINS. I was a little sceptical because in my pasdt I had done everything out there pretty much!! So those three lost weight like crazy!! Not me!! I never cheated one time where hubby had it seemed around every cornor he was cheating a little bit here and there. I NEVER lost 1#. It just goes to say that some do and some don't. I have been guilty of jumping on ones that people were talking about losing so much weight. I ended up having WLS. To get it off and so farkept it off for over 3 years. My hubby finally had his Sleeve last June in Juarez, Mexico. For us this is what has worked and keeps working. Sorry that zi took this post to a whole other round. I hope you all have a wonderful day!! And remember to: KEEP ON KEEPING ON!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Sherrie Scharbrough

This book

http://www.4yourtype.com/eat-right-for-your-type-book/

Helped me a lot. I don't eat the way I should for my blood type because the meats suggested are expensive and boring. The one thing I did take away from that book was my body does not react the same way to exercise as other people. It triggers stress in me and I don't lose weight. This book along with Dr. Matthew Weiner changed how I thought about exercise and I get amazing results with very low stress exercise like yoga and walking.

There are so many components to weight loss and how our bodies work. Just like having WLS success is partially based on genetic disposition.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@OutsideMatchInside

Can you elaborate a little more on your last sentence please about genetic disposition?

Thank you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nope.
Although Atkins was close to Keto. The original Atkins diet by Dr Atkins, the diet has been really bastardized since his death. All those trash products they sell in the store are pretty against his teaching.
Keto has a lot of science and studies to back it up.
I feel like if people can't process or understand the science of running the body on fat they shouldn't even bother. I see so many people making bad choices on Facebook etc and they don't understand the science. If you understand the science it is so easy to make the right choices.

Ok, if you take out the modern Atkins premade foods etc, is the concept the same as the original Atkins diet? It sounds like phase one of the Atkins diet, like permanently though. I don't really intend on doing either....though back in the day I did do Atkins and lost 20lbs when I only needed to lose 30lbs total....ahhh to be young again.....I personally would go crazy if I had to stick to a super restrictive diet forever however I am planning on keeping my carbs in check.



Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Trending Products

  • Trending Topics

  • Recent Status Updates

    • Prdgrdma

      So I guess after gastric bypass surgery, I cant eat flock chips because they are fried???  They sell them on here so I thought I could have them. So high in protein and no carbs.  They don't bother me at all.  Help. 
      · 1 reply
      1. NickelChip

        It's possible for a very high fat meal to cause dumping in some (30% or so) gastric bypass patients, although it's more likely to be triggered by high sugar, or by the high fat/high sugar combo (think ice cream, donuts). Dietitians will tell you to never do anything that isn't 100% healthy ever again. Realistically, you should aim for a good balance of protein, carbs, and fat each day. Should you eat fried foods every day? No. Is it possible they will make you sick? Maybe. Is it okay to eat some to see what happens and have them for a treat every now and again? Yes.

    • NovelTee

      I'm not at all hungry on this liquid pre-op diet, but I miss the sensation of chewing. It's been about two weeks––surgery is in two days––and I can't imagine how I'll feel a couple of weeks post-op. Tonight, I randomly stumbled upon a mukbang channel on YouTube, and it was strangely soothing... is it just me, or is this a thing? 
      · 1 reply
      1. NickelChip

        I actually watched cooking shows during my pre-op, like Great British Baking Show. It was a little bizarre, but didn't make me hungry. I think it was also soothing in a way.

    • Clueless_girl

      How do you figure out what your ideal weight should be? I've had a figure in my head for years, but after 3 mths of recovery I'm already almost there. So maybe my goal should be lower?
      · 3 replies
      1. NickelChip

        Well, there is actually a formula for "Ideal Body Weight" and you can use a calculator to figure it out for you. This one also does an adjusted weight for a person who starts out overweight or obese. https://www.mdcalc.com/calc/68/ideal-body-weight-adjusted-body-weight

        I would use that as a starting point, and then just see how you feel as you lose. How you look and feel is more important than a number.

      2. Clueless_girl

        I did find different calculators but I couldn't find any that accounted for body frame. But you're right, it is just a number. It was just disheartening to see that although I lost 60% of my excess weight, it's still not in the "normal/healthy" range..

      3. NickelChip

        I think it's important to remember that the weight charts and BMI ranges were developed a very long time ago and only intended to be applied to people who have never been overweight or obese. Those numbers aren't for us. When you are larger, especially for a long time, your body develops extra bone to support the weight. Your organs get a little bigger to handle the extra mass. Your entire infrastructure increases so you can support and function with the extra weight. That doesn't all go away just because you burn off the excess fat. If you still had a pair of jeans from your skinniest point in life and then lost weight to get to the exact number on the scale you were when those jeans fit you, chances are they would be a little baggy now because you would actually be thinner than you were, even though the scale and the BMI chart disagree. When in doubt, listen to the jeans, not the scale!

    • Aunty Mamo

      Tomorrow marks two weeks since surgery day and while I'm feeling remarkably well and going about just about every normal activity, I did wind up with a surface abscess on on of my incision sights and was put on an antibiotic that made me so impacted that it took me more than two hours to eliminate yesterday and scared the hell out of me. Now there's Miralax in all my beverages that aren't Smooth Move tea. I cannot experience that again. I shouldn't have to take Ativan to go to the lady's. I really looking forward to my body getting with the program again. 
      I'm in day three of the "puree" stage of eating and despite the strange textures, all of the savory flavors seem decadent. 
      I timed this surgery so that I'd be recovering during my spring break. That was a good plan. Today is a state holiday and the final day of break. I feel really strong to return to school tomorrow. 
      · 0 replies
      1. This update has no replies.
    • BeanitoDiego

      Now that I'm in maintenance mode, I'm getting a into a routine for my meals. Every day, I start out with 8-16 ounces of water, and then a proffee, which I have come to look forward to even the night before. My proffees are simply a black coffee with a protein powder added. There are three products that I cycle through: Premier Vanilla, Orgain Vanilla, and Dymatize Vanilla.
      For second breakfast on workdays, I will have a low-fat yogurt with two tablespoons of PBFit and two teaspoons of no sugar added dried cherries. I will have ingested 35-45 grams of protein at this point between the two breakfasts, with 250-285 calories, and about 20 carbs.
      For second breakfast on non-workdays, I will prepare two servings of plain, instant oatmeal with a tablespoon of an olive oil-based spread. This means I will have had 34 grams of protein, 365 calories, and 38 carbs. Non-workdays are when I am being very active with training sessions, so I allow myself more carbohydrate fuel.
      Snacks on any day are always mixed nuts, even when I am travelling. I will have 0.2 cups of a blend that I make myself. It consists of dry roasted peanuts, cashews, pumpkin seeds, sunflower seeds, pistachios, and Brazil nuts. This is 5 grams of protein, 163 calories, and 7 carbs.
      Breakfast and snacks have been the easiest to nail down. Lunch and dinner have more variables, and I prepare enough for leftovers. I concentrate on protein first, and then add vegetables. Typically tempeh, tofu, or Field Roast products with roasted or sautéed vegetables. Today, I will be eating leftovers from last night. Two ounces of tempeh with four ounces of roasted vegetables that consist of red and yellow sweet peppers, sweet potatoes, small purple potatoes, zucchini, and carrots. I will add a tablespoon of olive oil-based spread, break up 3 walnuts to sprinkle of top, and garnish with two tablespoons of grated Parmesan cheese. This particular meal will be 19 grams of protein, 377 calories, and 28 grams of carbs. Bear in mind that I do eat more carbs when I am not working, and I focus on ingesting healthy carbs instead of breads/crackers/chips/crisps.
      It's a helluva journey and I'm thankful to be on it!
       
      · 0 replies
      1. This update has no replies.
  • Recent Topics

  • Hot Products

  • Sign Up For
    Our Newsletter

    Follow us for the latest news
    and special product offers!
  • Together, we have lost...
      lbs

    PatchAid Vitamin Patches

    ×