Funny how the political becomes personal

[OKCPirate 5,323]

I have been having an ongoing discussion with a self-styled Social Justice Warrior type of Facebook. I posted this on my page, but because my page isn't public, I'm afraid I might not get a wide enough perspective. Strangely, the current flap on Bariatric Pal vis-a-vis the banning of a contributor kind of triggered the thoughts. Please feel free to comment:

Should you dump a FB friend who is a bigot?

Before you answer so quick, I'm talking about anti-intellectual left/Social Justice Warrior bigots.

I'm noticing a bad trend where people are embracing their victimhood, which gives them justification for violence and rejection of facts because reality doesn't sync with their feelings.

I don't want to live in an echo chamber world where only one side talks to others of like mind.

There are facts and perspective which can be legitimately different. Honest discussion can expand understanding of all parties. But when one side has an attitude of entitlement because of perceived victimhood, all they have is name calling which results in the dehumanization of their opponent.

The most extream results of this were seen by the Communists, the greatest mass murders of the past century. Anyone who disagreed with the party line was an enemy of the state and needed "re-education" and then sent to forced labor camps, or were just simply killed for having their own thoughts.

This goes back to the original question. By unfriending or just ignoring the idiocy and other passive responses are we hastening the end of real discourse?

[LittleBill 2,231]

I pushed the eject button on a number of idiots who are incapable of intelligent/civil/polite discourse. You cannot have an intelligent exchange with an idealogue. It is like trying to dig a hole in Water.

[Odie 249]

I had to think about this subject before replying!! It should be said that I love a good argument with people who can argue without getting personal or resorting to below the belt tactics. My people don't have to be the same religion, same colour, same politics or cheer for the same hockey team!!

Having said that, I cannot condone racism or bigotry. I'm Canadian so I'm not sure if it is right for me to comment on your politics but your President Elect is a stereotype of everything I despise in a person. First and foremost, he is a bully and I despise that above all things even racism and bigotry!! When someone on my Facebook list chooses to admire him, then I know we have nothing in common and gives me a clear insight to their true character.

However, I also despise militant Social Justice Warriors whose constant theatrics trivializes true injustices. They are not concerned about how people are treated, but rather want to be noticed and applauded! Though my son is a grown man now, I am a single parent who supported us by hard work and not relying on the system to take care of us. I was a feminist BEFORE it even had a name!! But I love having a door opened for me and my arm taken so that I don't slip and fall!!

I'm complicated!! lol But I don't take any crap from anyone. I hate scenes and public displays. I never have a battle of wits with an unarmed person so I choose to ignore them. I have unfriended people but have also just chosen to not follow some so that I don't hurt their feelings. I can't keep quiet if someone is being bullied but usually wait till I get them alone!!

I don't know if that answers your question or begs more questions!!

[WLSResources/ClothingExch 3,443]

Should you dump a FB friend who is a bigot?

Before you answer so quick, I'm talking about anti-intellectual left/Social Justice Warrior bigots.

I don't want to live in an echo chamber world where only one side talks to others of like mind.

I think yYour use is the first I've come across the term "social justice warrior." If I have heard it, it was swept up in a barrage of rhetoric and imagesi So that I wouldn't misunderstand, I googled for the meaning, read it and thought "Nice, that's derogatory." I clicked out and went back to find the origin, but clicked out again when I saw the notation, "derogatory." The source became moot.

I had to read "anti-intellectual left" a few times and wondered at the juxtaposition of words. We don't know the same people. I think of the "redneck right" (not my usual expression, but it fits here) as anti-intellectual. Let's just say that we come from different neighborhoods. It also took a couple of looks for me to see that you hadn't been defriended.

It seems to me that, if one chooses derogatory terms, one shouldn't be surprised by landing in an echo chamber. Basing the topic on internet associations, however, makes the topic shaky to my way of thinking. Would you knowingly have as a real-world friend someone you would consider a bigot? Would that person be welcomed at your dinner table?

Sometimes discourse is not meant to be. It can go in circles and around the block for days and then everyone goes back to their houses, forgets the discussion, maybe gets huffy and everything stays the same.

P.S. re your title: The political certainly does become personal. They're inextricably linked.

Edited January 14, 2017 by WLSResources/ClothingExch

[OKCPirate 5,323]

@@WLSResources/ClothingExch - that's fair, Red-Neck-Right and Social Justice Warriors are two sides of the same coin. They are both highly anti-intellectual and spout someone else's bumper sticker pablum.

[WLSResources/ClothingExch 3,443]

@@OKCPirate, you "liked" that. What happened to the more piratical version of yourself? I expected a walk-the-plank message. You're softening. I have hope for you yet despite the first glimpse at your political views. Ay ay ay.

P.S. Just got your note immediately above. I'll take my pablum with a spoon, thank you.

Edited January 14, 2017 by WLSResources/ClothingExch

[LittleBill 2,231]

@@WLSResources/ClothingExch - that's fair, Red-Neck-Right and Social Justice Warriors are two sides of the same coin. They are both highly anti-intellectual and spout someone else's bumper sticker pablum.

You know, there are a lot of us rednecks who are really very intellectual. We just like boots, jeans, John Deere hats and guns.

Excuse me. I missed my Oxford comma.

Edited January 14, 2017 by LittleBill

[OKCPirate 5,323]

@@Odie - I'm not a Trump apologist by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm getting a little tired of the vitriol against him before he has even taken office. As Bill Maher has observed, the left is now kicking itself for being so hard on McCain because they are stuck with the same rhetoric they used on him as they do with Trump. They should have kept their powder dry. As with all politician, there are some things I like, other things I don't, but I would like to get a sense of his policies and proposals without vitriol and certainly without violence.

And I'm with you on the racism and bigotry, but what got my attention in my attempt at discussion with this person on FB was she was making riduculous asertions, I posted some facts. She claimed her feelings trumped facts because as a white, heterosexual and CIS male, any facts I presented were irrelevant. That to me is racism. I would be appalled at anyone who ignored truth because it was spoken by someone of color. Apparently mentioning that such a statement was bigotry is a trigger. Who knew?

[OKCPirate 5,323]

@@WLSResources/ClothingExch - You brought up a valid point, which I was not focused on. And that is the value of honest discussion.

[OKCPirate 5,323]

@@LittleBill - I was in Seatle with my daughters, and I found a cool AirB&B in Jimmy Hendrix's old neighborhood. This poor lady was terrified that some big old red neck looking guy from Oklahoma was going to be, I think she envisioned every worst case stereotype. It was hilarious when she left her comment when we left of "maybe we should get to really know people before judging them." Sigh, people do need to get out of their echo chambers.

[WLSResources/ClothingExch 3,443]

... I would like to get a sense of his policies and proposals without vitriol and certainly without violence.

And I'm with you on the racism and bigotry, but what got my attention in my attempt at discussion with this person on FB was she was making riduculous asertions, I posted some facts. She claimed her feelings trumped facts because as a white, heterosexual and CIS male, any facts I presented were irrelevant. That to me is racism. I would be appalled at anyone who ignored truth because it was spoken by someone of color. Apparently mentioning that such a statement was bigotry is a trigger. Who knew?

As a lifelong New Yorker, I've been aware of certain conduct and speech through the years that are widely known here. None of it bodes well. If he has policies and proposals, they have begun to form only in about the past six weeks, less so then than now. He has no thought process. I can't accept any individual in a position of power who has no means of expression. His two multi-syllabic words are "Beautiful" and "Wonderful," which, when applied to important matters, say nothing. How can I take seriously someone who came to national attention as the host of an extended television game show? How can I take seriously someone of 70 who has achieved the emotional maturity of a mewling, tantrum-throwing two-year old? Mostly he opens his mouth and waits to hear what spills out. There was little or no consistency through the endless campaign. I've marveled all along at the working class and blue-collar people who supported him. What's been the attraction? Does the lack of intellect and intelligence make them think he's one of them (and I do know that being a working-class person does not mean that one is unintelligent or not intellectual)? Well, guess again. He's unconcerned with them. What was that you were saying about "anti-intellectual?"

Then there are the matters of ethics and decency. Need I say more?

I'm glad you went into more about the Facebook person. There is shadow over her now.

[Babbs 14,680]

Ha!

You know, I just may just have to go completely dark from the Internet for a while. If I hear one more person asking me to give that walking, talking personality disorder a 'chance', I'm going to puke.

[WLSResources/ClothingExch 3,443]

@@Babbs --

I just happen to be listening to a few YouTube videos of reggae versions of "A Groovy Kind of Love (there's a reason, don't laugh at me)" and, somehow, in the mix in the column of offerings down the right side of the youtube screen, was this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrdReoHAi6M

What got me is this Conway's comment early in the video about wishing Meryl Streep would calm down and realize that "this is our president...."

As the stars are my witnesses, I shall never use the word "president" or the title with its initial cap. in conjunction with the trump name. It's a physical, mental, emotional, intellectual, anti-intellectual (that one's a gift to you, P), ethical, humanitarian, American impossibility. To be respected, one must be respectable. He falls short.

Edited January 14, 2017 by WLSResources/ClothingExch

[Aggiemae 739]

I have a couple of republicans and at least one Trump supporter friend on face book. I get links to the stuff they post so I think i stay better informed. For example I read on a right of center feed that 1/3 of conservatives didn't know that the Affordable Care Act (they are for it) and "Obama care" (they are against it) are the same thing. Seriously.

[LittleBill 2,231]

@@Aggiemae Interesting. I am about as conservative as one can get in some ways, and a classic liberal in others. I describe myself as a conservative libertarian. I have a number of friends from across the political spectrum. The same goes for religious and social spectrums. The main requirement is that they are thinking people. We don't always agree, but we do stay informed, and we are usually pretty good at articuling why we think and believe as we do. I have never come across conservatives who did not know the ACA was Obamacare, in my personal associations or otherwise.