Please Read: Keep BariatricPal a Safe Place

[LipstickLady 25,682]

You are sending VERY mixed messages, @@Alex Brecher !!

[CowgirlJane 14,259]

Clarifying question - a person such as myself who are many years post op, maintaining but have my struggles am no longer permitted to ask for support from people who might have similar experiences and information to share? Does this mean the veterans forum is now contrary to the rules? Isn't just having that forum "discriminating" based on the examples laid out in your post?

It's your forum, you can make your own rules but I really cannot fathom how making a request for support/info/feedback from a person who has gone through your same experience can be construed as rude or discriminatory to people who are earlier in the process.

Please, educate me because I never intend to hurt a person's feelings. The thought going through my mind is you simply don't want longer term WLS patients posting here anymore, but I am trying to give the benefit of the doubt.

• Discriminating against “newbies,” such as letting a newbie know that you don’t think he or she will succeed, or asking only “vets” to reply to a certain thread. (Reminder: you can always choose not to follow the advice of someone you deem unqualified to give it).

[OKCPirate 5,323]

@@Alex Brecher - good post, the only thing I would add is when I am posting to someone's question, I try to differentiate between "facts" and "opinions." For instance there are some accepted best practices on alcohol. I feel obligated to say this is what we know, but IMHO, this is what I have experienced. I think when people make clear when they are sharing but not claiming absolute certainty, it makes it easier for everyone to keep their reactions in perspective. IMHO

[cherylanne k 13]

I agree CowgirlJane. I see nothing wrong with asking for replies from veterans only. Sometimes they are the only ones qualified to understand what you are going through. To think that this is "discriminating" against newbies is.....a stretch at best. I rarely post on here preferring to learn from what others ask/post. I haven't seen newbies being picked on or judged as much as they get offended when they don't like the replies they get. I'm 8 days post op and so weak with hunger I HAD to have a few bites of bacon/pasta/steak ect. Then when a veteran takes the time to explain why this was dangerous/foolish ect the op gets defensive when they dislike the answers given. Sigh. Sometimes? Tough love,honest answers,the TRUTH is what's called for. If you don't like someone's reply to your question ignore it. But don't tell all our veterans that have walked before us and have the experience we so desperately need that they are the problem. After 5months of daily reading this site it seems like people get upset if they get a reply that isn't all sunshine and roses. Just my opinion.

[jintycb 721]

Welcome back my little Roo. Where the hell have you been Kinda. It's been awfully quiet without you. Missed you x

[OKCPirate 5,323]

@@sharonintx -"All our members are polite, politically correct, sensitive, and joyously knowledgeable" said no internet forum ever.

DOUBLE THUMBS UP!!!! Perfect, absolutely true. (OK, IMHO)

[Alex Brecher 10,484]

Clarifying question - a person such as myself who are many years post op, maintaining but have my struggles am no longer permitted to ask for support from people who might have similar experiences and information to share? Does this mean the veterans forum is now contrary to the rules? Isn't just having that forum "discriminating" based on the examples laid out in your post?

It's your forum, you can make your own rules but I really cannot fathom how making a request for support/info/feedback from a person who has gone through your same experience can be construed as rude or discriminatory to people who are earlier in the process.

Please, educate me because I never intend to hurt a person's feelings. The thought going through my mind is you simply don't want longer term WLS patients posting here anymore, but I am trying to give the benefit of the doubt.

• Discriminating against “newbies,” such as letting a newbie know that you don’t think he or she will succeed, or asking only “vets” to reply to a certain thread. (Reminder: you can always choose not to follow the advice of someone you deem unqualified to give it).

This was only referring to all topics or posts that aren't within the veterans forums. Apologies for not clarifying.

[smg 471]

Thanks, Alex, I had been thinking about the same ideas this past week.

It especially makes my blood boil when someone responds to a post with "well if you're thinking of doing that then I question your commitment to weight loss." I think it is really not a helpful response. You don't have enough information to make that call. I'm sure it is not too difficult to get your point across without suggesting someone is destined to be a weight loss failure.

If someone who has actually been through the process already comes to me and says that they feel something I'm thinking of or am already doing will cause me to fail, I ABSOLUTELY would like for them to let me know. Saying "Oh don't worry you'll do great" is NOT a proper answer to everything and simply letting someone know that what they're considering doing or are already doing is not going to help them and could actually hinder their results should be welcomed, not discouraged.

Let's make this a little more about the big picture also, shall we. When someone who may traditionally speak out if they feel something is wrong/counterproductive decides to stop speaking out because of these "you must walk on eggshells" dictations, it might save the fragile feelings of one person, but it could potentially hurt quite a few more. We tend to only consider those that are actually participating in the discussions and there's little mention of the many who read posts to get information without ever posting themselves. If the forum is full of "less than ideal" <- (read=terrible) suggestions that have not been challenged by those perhaps more knowledgeable because they've been muzzled or decided to leave because of over-moderating, these bad ideas could potentially get followed because there's no posts correcting, questioning or offering explanations as to why they are bad. Now that's something that should not be taken lightly.

Not sure about you, but as someone who needed the surgery due to terrible eating habits, if I saw a post or discussion on a forum that starts with the (ridiculous) questions of "Can I eat just a few potato chips or french fries or chocolates...", and that post had no contradictory responses and only those "Don't worry about....you're amazing!" responses I'm pretty sure I would run (not walk) to the nearest store and get chips and french fries and chocolates. After all, nobody said not to and as a food addict it wouldn't take much for me to justify that trip to the store...

If a cocaine addict posts on a drug user forum that they want to try "just a line or two", do you think the response there is gentle? I would hope and expect it NOT to be.

This is a forum where people of DIFFERING points of view meet. If you don't like what's being said or "what could be said" in response to a post that YOU are FREELY making and by doing so, SOLICITING responses, then don't write the post. To try to put thousands of members "under the thumb" is simply going to do nothing more than stop the productive dialogue that has helped so many and replace it with mindless, non-essential, canned garbage that will help very few, if any at all.

Debate and FREE conversation is what makes any forum valuable, and when you take that away you take away the value.

Having said all of that, I hope that FREE debate and conversation (even those of differing points of view) continue on this site without unnecessary suppression or over-moderating. I do, however, believe that personal attacks, violence, or threatening remarks have no place in ANY forum or discussion, and should be dealt with accordingly.

Edited August 1, 2016 by smg

[Lisa Kasen/UnstapledLisa 16]

Even though I'm not what I call "bariatric royalty", I have social media with most, because of how I choose to support the wls community.

Of course all of us will vary in our communication styles, as well as how we perceive intent.

There really is no need to be rude though, and that's why I understand the reason for this post. Also not knowing every aspect of someone's medical and mental health history, when people struggle, a lot of people jump to conclusions, that they shouldn't.

I guess the best way to explain where I'm coming from is that I've seen people feeling like they failed their wls from eating Cookies. For one person that failure is eating one cookie, for another a bite of a cookie, for some it's the entire package.

People can be straight to the point without being rude. There is nothing that any of us post ops, newbie to grads, can really prepare anyone for how they will respond to wls. 3 out of 5 us in my immediate family had wls, same surgeon, same DNA, all of us are grads and completely DIFFERENT experiences post wls. For my sister and my Dad, it worked better for them not participate in anything wls (even though my Dad is a revised peep 13 1/2 years ago and still SMO)

I remember the first 2 years post rny, I did struggle with head hunger. My surgery did what it was supposed to do. Then I found a love of exercise at 2 1/2 years post rny and got thinner and fitter than I ever dreamed (went from a size 24 to a 9/10 the 1st 2 years post rny). However when I talked about struggling in 2002 to mid 2004, people who were grads were mean to me.

Then I got thinner and fitter when they started to falter. So between being too busy and lack of support, I just lived my life, until my complications nearly killed me (I started actively participating on Facebook in early 2010) and saw that not all wls peeps are going to be hateful and that there was support to give and take. But knowing there will always be haters.

I've had people bluntly and/or hatefully say they would never regain weight, like I did, from 2007 to 2009, who've apologized years later, when they ended up gaining more weight than I did, with less trying circumstances. I've had anonymous haters tell me that they will never be like me, tell me that they would rather die than lose their wls tool but they weigh over 200 lbs more than I do.

I guess the best way I can explain why I support this thread, and I'm not in any wls community, constantly, is you never know what people are truly going through.

And even if someone is 3 days post wls, is just leaving the hosptial and is talking about wanting to go through the drive thru at Taco Bell, there's NEVER any reason to be mean. That's a sign someone needs acute medical and mental health help and support, usually best given by a clinically trained professional. NOT a 2-3 year post wls patient who hasn't walked in their shoes.

The best way I can explain what I'm trying to say and I know I'm wordy, it's not much different than when someone says "If I can do it, anyone can". No, they may not be able to do it, you/we don't know all of their circumstances and none of us are EVER an expert on someone else's experience. Whether it be WLS related or anything else.

[CowgirlJane 14,259]

I agree there is never a reason to be hurtful, but this post goes way beyond that.

So now it is clarified that veterans are allowed to request input from other vets on the veterans forum, that is good. Does it mean that non veterans can or cannot "discriminate" and request input from people of a specific category such as the classic " I want to hear from people who are 5 or more years post op"?

The underlying premise to this post, and the one that was made a couple of months ago is that the veteran community are the meanies and therefore need specific additional rules. I just don't see this in practice. I do realize that people new to the process are often emotionally more vulnerable (frightened, insecure etc) and I try to always remember that, but I completely reject the concept that the successful experienced WLS are the problem on this forum.

When I first joined, I looked around for a handful of people who were similar age, similar amount of starting overweight , also female who had met their goals and were maintaining....and I listened to them! I wanted success not to be patted on the head. It worked, I am still half my former size years later and those ladies I "followed" helped me believe in myself. I realize veterans don't tend to buy stuff at the store, but, perhaps there is some value to our participation here. Many of the experienced and successful longer term WLS peeps have left, and this sort of general statement implying we are anti-support is one of the many reasons for that. It gets old.

[Sharon1964 2,530]

The underlying premise to this post, and the one that was made a couple of months ago is that the veteran community are the meanies and therefore need specific additional rules.

Many of the experienced and successful longer term WLS peeps have left, and this sort of general statement implying we are anti-support is one of the many reasons for that. It gets old.

This. So much this.

[Christinamo7 4,041]

This is a forum where people of DIFFERING points of view meet. If you don't like what's being said or "what could be said" in response to a post that YOU are FREELY making and by doing so, SOLICITING responses, then don't write the post. To try to put thousands of members "under the thumb" is simply going to do nothing more than stop the productive dialogue that has helped so many and replace it with mindless, non-essential, canned garbage that will help very few, if any at all.

Debate and FREE conversation is what makes any forum valuable, and when you take that away you take away the value.

Having said all of that, I hope that FREE debate and conversation (even those of differing points of view) continue on this site without unnecessary suppression or over-moderating. I do, however, believe that personal attacks, violence, or threatening remarks have no place in ANY forum or discussion, and should be dealt with accordingly.

absolutely spot on. I have been on internet forums for longer than I would like to admit. Overmoderation is usually what kills a board. I would encourage everyone to use the ignore function if you don't like a particular person.

[sharonintx 1,275]

In case anyone wonders what I'm really thinking (lol):

So Alex posts about keeping BP a safe place. Great. It's his forum. He started it, he maintains it, and ultimately has the responsibility for the success or failure of the site.

We have those who think there are some mean people here, those who think we have a bunch of whiners and complainers, those who apparently think they are the great bariatric enforcers, and those who follow either crowd just to find some acceptance and validation.

Am I the only one that finished Jr High many many years ago?

I think there's a lot of folks who need to get a grip, realize that this is an internet forum, and concentrate more on actual reality rather than cyber space.

BP can be a valuable place for some people. Some have valid questions and valid replies to questions. Others want validation of their choices. Some want to carry a big stick and act like they must know everything.

My final thought is this - WLS is about health, weight loss, and the emotional journey that is equally as important as the weight loss. There are many people here that need to concentrate on that last part because the constant carrying on indicates that the pounds may have dropped off but the emotional state is still a wreck.

[Proud2BMe 1,016]

Well, I've seen both sides of the coin on this topic. I've seen rude replies and I've seen innocent replies that some overly-dramatic person takes offense too. You can't please everyone so if the mods are doing their jobs then it should not be a problem. A mod should be able to read a reply and tell if the poster is being rude or if someone is just overreacting.

[summerset 5,261]

We have those who think there are some mean people here, those who think we have a bunch of whiners and complainers, those who apparently think they are the great bariatric enforcers, and those who follow either crowd just to find some acceptance and validation.

Am I the only one that finished Jr High many many years ago?

I think there's a lot of folks who need to get a grip, realize that this is an internet forum, and concentrate more on actual reality rather than cyber space.

BP can be a valuable place for some people. Some have valid questions and valid replies to questions. Others want validation of their choices. Some want to carry a big stick and act like they must know everything.

My final thought is this - WLS is about health, weight loss, and the emotional journey that is equally as important as the weight loss. There are many people here that need to concentrate on that last part because the constant carrying on indicates that the pounds may have dropped off but the emotional state is still a wreck.

This.

IMO a lot of the "old, experienced ones" don't leave because this is such an awful place for them but because they don't feel the need to be here. Just guessing of course, but almost everything feels just old in the end and this includes hanging around online boards.