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[HopeandAgony 566]

As a person who has been a mental health warrior for a very long time I fully understand the reason this post was made.

For a lot of you here, blunt and what you like to call tough love is 100% your approach. It is your approach because you aren't personally impacted by that approach, giving or receiving it. That's your way life.

For someone like me, it's just not that easy. I can dissect every single word slung at me. Over analyze it. Be hurt. Be sad. Worry about it for hours on end. Every time I speak/write I analyze everything to determine how it would impact me. I'm not saying the tough lovers don't think before they speak. What I am saying is that it probably isn't agonizing for you.

Is my sensitivity your fault? No. But it isn't mine either. I don't expect anyone to pussyfoot around me. And you shouldn't expect everyone to understand your bluntness, or that it was only meant just that, tough love. Not all minds work that way.

Then there are also the people who just come out of the gate swinging if someone says something they don't agree with. I'm not excusing these people, but I am a little in awe of them for having the ability to so readily defend themselves because I most often shy away from conflict. And yes, I agree they go over board and push buttons and escalate things quickly.

I guess my point is that the people who don't understand this post might have never walked in the shoes of a person with a shattered mind. We can't just toughen up. We can't just grow thicker skin. We can't always control what "butt hurts" us. That said, we also shouldn't be banned from the internet though, like is often suggested because we are sensitive. We want and need support to and you have no right to determine what does or doesn't hurt or bother us.

The world is so full of hate. If we could all try a little harder to see each other's perspective there wouldn't be so many lines drawn in the sand.

I appreciate most everyone here. I know I'm sensitive so I avoid posts that go in a direction that doesn't support my needs. Am I ultimately avoiding conflict? Yes. But that is how I make it through this world that often leaves me feeling ways that aren't healthy for me. Maybe for you tough lovers, if a responder gets a little upset, don't keep going. Just bow out of the post. You never know what storm another person is walking through.

Sent from my SM-G930P using the BariatricPal App

Edited July 31, 2016 by HopeandAgony

[Healthy_life2 8,319]

@@sharonintx

"All our members are polite, politically correct, sensitive, and joyously knowledgeable" said no internet forum ever.

Unfortunately when you have any type public forum there will always be nice people, funny people, abrasive people, know-it-alls who really know very little, closed minded people who think their way is the only way, and desperately needy people who could not form an independent opinion if their lives depended on it.

This is the world wide web, the blazing fast internet, the information super highway.

There is really no way to control what type of person joins. You can spend your days trying to block the numerous a-holes or you can leave it up to each individual to determine who gives sound advice and responses.

There will never be a day that you have an open forum consisting only of genuinely nice people. You can certainly ask for courtesy and respect from members but to think that everyone will cooperate is unrealistic.

It takes all kinds to make the world go round.

Amen sister! Well said

[LipstickLady 25,682]

As a person who has been a mental health warrior for a very long time I fully understand the reason this post was made.

For a lot of you here, blunt and what you like to call tough love is 100% your approach. It is your approach because you aren't personally impacted by that approach, giving or receiving it. That's your way life.

For someone like me, it's just not that easy. I can dissect every single word slung at me. Over analyze it. Be hurt. Be sad. Worry about it for hours on end. Every time I speak/write I analyze everything to determine how it would impact me. I'm not saying the tough lovers don't think before they speak. What I am saying is that it probably isn't agonizing for you.

Is my sensitivity your fault? No. But it isn't mine either. I don't expect anyone to pussyfoot around me. And you shouldn't expect everyone to understand your bluntness, or that it was only meant just that, tough love. Not all minds work that way.

Then there are also the people who just come out of the gate swinging if someone says something they don't agree with. I'm not excusing these people, but I am a little in awe of them for having the ability to so readily defend themselves because I most often shy away from conflict. And yes, I agree they go over board and push buttons and escalate things quickly.

I guess my point is that the people who don't understand this post might have never walked in the shoes of a person with a shattered mind. We can't just toughen up. We can't just grow thicker skin. We can't always control what "butt hurts" us. That said, we also shouldn't be banned from the internet though, like is often suggested because we are sensitive. We want and need support to and you have no right to determine what does or doesn't hurt or bother us.

The world is so full of hate. If we could all try a little harder to see each other's perspective there wouldn't be so many lines drawn in the sand.

I appreciate most everyone here. I know I'm sensitive so I avoid posts that go in a direction that doesn't support my needs. Am I ultimately avoiding conflict? Yes. But that is how I make it through this world that often leaves me feeling ways that aren't healthy for me. Maybe for you tough lovers, if a responder gets a little upset, don't keep going. Just bow out of the post. You never know what storm another person is walking through.

Sent from my SM-G930P using the BariatricPal App

I totally appreciate your self awareness and I **am** one of those blunt, forward people. There are definitely things that totally "butt hurt" me or just p!ss me off in general, so I avoid those topics/forums. Why? Because I don't feel those discussions are for me, but I also feel I shouldn't stifle other peoples' discussion because it makes ME unhappy/uncomfortable. It seems to me that you are self aware enough to do the same for the most part and I admire that in you.

I am definitely going to refrain from from posting here because clearly, @@Alex Brecher has made it clear that people like me are no longer welcome. I may chat with friends I KNOW appreciate my frame of mind, but as for answering questions to those I don't know? It's not worth it.

If people want to drink/smoke/eat solid foods directly pre or post op, more power to them. If they ask if it's bad but they justify what their actions in the same post, I know they don't want to hear other opinions. My opinion is my own (it says so in my signature) and is only based on my experiences. Clearly my disclaimer is not enough, so I am done.

The vet forum is where I will stay for the most part, if at all, unless I know it is someone that will appreciate my advice whether they choose to take it or not. I cannot continue to be called mean, a bully, a clique, etc. blah blah blah. I'm thin, I'm healthy and I have much more important things to do with my life than volunteer my time paying forward the support I was given when it is clearly unwanted.

There are a handful of people who have changed this board for the worse (in my opinion) and we have lost a BUNCH of great people. Fortunately, I can connect with them elsewhere and elsewhere is clearly where I need to be.

Best to you all!

[LaDivaDev 129]

In other words, this isn't the place to be a jerk. In a nutshell, that's the conclusion I came to. Works for me.

@@LaDivaDev

you are aces

good luck with gastric bypass in august

speedy recovery

kathy

Thanks, Grammy!!!

[Djmohr 6,965]

Wow, I am exhausted just going though all of these responses. I wasn't sure I even wanted to get involved in this trending topic.

I work hard to try to make sure that I speak from my own personal experiences and I try hard to watch my tone while at the same time trying to be straight forward with people.

I tend to be very outspoken in the non virtual world and I know there are times when people read tone when tone is not intended on line. I have always tried hard not to be mean nor a bully but up front and honest. When you are asking for help and wondering why you are gaining and not following the rules, I am going to call you out.

It is getting harder and harder to be real on this site. I spend a lot of my free time on here trying to give back and help people because I personally got so much out of this site. I know how important it is to have people that are experienced to reach out to and I also relish our newbies because they are so excited that it is contagious! I personally get caught up in what their new reality can be, this is what brought be back when I stepped away a few months ago.

That being said the issue becomes, if I have to really go back and read every post that I make to ensure no one will be hurt by what I have to say, that will stop me from posting nearly as much.

There have been times when I have been involved in posts in which someone is calling out that "we" are mean or bullies because they simply do not want to hear the truth. I think the truth needs to be told and I personally try my best to be kind while still being straight forward. That is hard for me to do sometimes.

I will continue to post on Bariatric Pal and do my best to be kind while still being real. If I have personally made anyone feel butt hurt, you have my sincere apology. It certainly was never intentional.

What I won't do is sugar coat or coddle. It helps no one.

[Steph~L~16 168]

@@LipstickLady I have read a lot of your posts in the past, and in my opinion most have made me laugh and none have been offensive. Personally I definitely don't think that you should feel like you need to hold back.

I am one of those people that is extra sensitive so I don't post much, & just really haven't found anyone that I really 'clicked' with here, but there is a lot of good information both from the vets and from newbies like me asking questions.

I think most of it can really boil down to the manner in which people respond. Not coddling, but also not attacking and judging - which I have seen once or twice here. We are all in the same boat and just trying to better ourselves but everyone handles the situation differently. You seem to be sensitive to that while also giving the best advice you can, which for me has been appreciated. And the humor doesn't hurt either.

Sent from my iPhone using the BariatricPal App

[jintycb 721]

Just a quick comment. Anyone who suffers from an addiction and goes through a twelve step program with AA, NA, OA etc is given tough love. They are also given experience, strength and hope from other 'vet' recovering addicts. They are told to 'stick with the winners'.

As a recovering alkie, smoker and glutton (hence being the recipient of WLS) I can only speak from my experience personally from AA and my alcoholism. The tough love and vets from the Fellowship of AA served me well. I would probably be dead by now if I hadn't taken the cotton wool out of my ears and listened, and shoved it in my gob so that I couldn't spout excuses and crap!!! I got very ruffled feathers when I was a newby as I thought that I knew better on many occasions. I was given some tough 'suggestions' as to what I should be doing to get sober.

I equate this site as the WLS version of AA. I love the fact that there is so much humour (we laugh at ourselves, not at our disease of overeating) and I also stick with the winners here. You know who you are. For heaven's sake, stick around and carry on giving me the support that I have had (in shed loads) over the months since my surgery.

If anyone offends me I just form an opinion and share it through private messages. That's when you discover like minded folks. I'm sure that there are people who are upset by what I post but they have the facility to have a private moan to their like minded chums.

So, the long and the short of this rambling post is that if you don't like my forthright comments, go away and have a moan or just ignore me. I'm not going anywhere by the way and I remain, a miserable, b!tchy old git.

[4MRB4PHOTO 3,899]

...So, the long and the short of this rambling post is that if you don't like my forthright comments, go away and have a moan or just ignore me. I'm not going anywhere by the way and I remain, a miserable, b!tchy old git.

You 're not old.

[4MRB4PHOTO 3,899]

@@LipstickLady

After 3 years and almost 7,000 posts, it is a shame that you were beaten down to feel this way.

Your caring, tough love, humor, compassion, experience and knowledge, will be missed if you leave.

I have learned from your writings and enjoyed your wit and humor many, many times.

Haters will hate. Just don't let them bring you down.

I look forward to reading more of your posts in the future.

[KindaFamiliar 3,867]

Same topic, different heading...

It's old...

It's tired...

It's not gonna change...

It's the internet for f*cks sake...

If you CHOOSE to let this shit get you down then you deserve to be down...

If you don't like what's been said, find another forum where they tell you what you wanna hear...

Or better still, turn your f*cking computer off, get off your fat arse and go for a walk...

Honestly, it's sh*t like this that keeps me away...

Speaking of away...

[4MRB4PHOTO 3,899]

Same topic, different heading...

It's old...

It's tired...

It's not gonna change...

It's the internet for f*cks sake...

If you CHOOSE to let this **** get you down then you deserve to be down...

If you don't like what's been said, find another forum where they tell you what you wanna hear...

Or better still, turn your f*cking computer off, get off your fat arse and go for a walk...

Honestly, it's sh*t like this that keeps me away...

Speaking of away...

Look who woke up on the wrong side of the world this morning.

Welcome back.

[kmorri 1,689]

I think it's easy......just be nice. And by "be nice" I don't mean give permission for dangerous or unhealthy behavior, because that's just as bad, if not worse than just being flat our rude.. When someone asks can they eat something that is clearly not something they should be eating early in the post-op stage, and someone responds with..."sure, eat whatever you want".....that's just as bad as responding with "are you stupid? didn't you read your post-op orders?"

It's easy to be nice and give appropriate information at the same time. Will people take it the wrong way from time to time, yes.....I learned a long time ago if someone "perceives" me a certain way .....that's not their problem, it's mine! In order to interact with different people it's important to be able to change your communication style to one that is best received by the receiver....If I read a post and think to myself "how stupid is that!" I know I need to just go on to the next post......So yes being nice is easy, but if you read a post and you don't think you can be helpful without being condescending, snippy, or inappropriate....don't respond to that one.

This is a wonderful forum. I've appreciated having a place where I can communicate with folks who have been through the same surgery and changes as I have......I will continue to come here for that.

[KristenLe 5,979]

@@KindaFamiliar Welcome back!

[chycky 671]

It is a shame this thread was started because I think it escalated bad feelings, oversensitivity, and a discussion about discussions. It is like a meeting about meetings.

As a newbie, I love the vets -- @@LipstickLady, inner surfer girl OKC Pirate --everyone have been amazing to read and follow. I can't imagine staying on a forum that takes such a bizarre stance on disagreements. And, a forum without @@LipstickLady ? Hard to imagine.

Everyone here is above age 18, and they are free to read, ignore, or respond.

As a VERY newbie (6 weeks post-op) I am not offended by someone wishing to have a thread or discussion with vets only. Frankly, I cannot imagine the stamina, patience, and charity involved in reading the same questions over and over for a year+ --as after less than 2 months, I am (sometimes) like "USE THE SEARCH". But, I know I have asked stupid questions, and will continue to ask stupid questions. I hope to be able to provide perspective on my journey if ever helpful. Just as the June sleevers (and other months) have started forums, why shouldn't the vets have the same opportunity to congregate with those in the same place openly? @@Alex Brecher

[Alex Brecher 10,484]

Just a quick comment. Anyone who suffers from an addiction and goes through a twelve step program with AA, NA, OA etc is given tough love. They are also given experience, strength and hope from other 'vet' recovering addicts. They are told to 'stick with the winners'.

As a recovering alkie, smoker and glutton (hence being the recipient of WLS) I can only speak from my experience personally from AA and my alcoholism. The tough love and vets from the Fellowship of AA served me well. I would probably be dead by now if I hadn't taken the cotton wool out of my ears and listened, and shoved it in my gob so that I couldn't spout excuses and crap!!! I got very ruffled feathers when I was a newby as I thought that I knew better on many occasions. I was given some tough 'suggestions' as to what I should be doing to get sober.

I equate this site as the WLS version of AA. I love the fact that there is so much humour (we laugh at ourselves, not at our disease of overeating) and I also stick with the winners here. You know who you are. For heaven's sake, stick around and carry on giving me the support that I have had (in shed loads) over the months since my surgery.

If anyone offends me I just form an opinion and share it through private messages. That's when you discover like minded folks. I'm sure that there are people who are upset by what I post but they have the facility to have a private moan to their like minded chums.

So, the long and the short of this rambling post is that if you don't like my forthright comments, go away and have a moan or just ignore me. I'm not going anywhere by the way and I remain, a miserable, b!tchy old git.

Very well said!