Those who drink diet pop post-op {Only nice comments PLEASE}

[Cari Dickenson 148]

Op I wasn't saying you can't do it. I saw somewhere you or I thought was you said... you were gonna try a month out. It might have been another person.... as I said all the different posts can be a bit confusing. I don't think you can't do it. I am just worried that I don't want you you to suffer or hurt. Yes I know your grown and can do whatever you so choose.... I am not denying that... I was concerned as I said... it was not meant in meanness to anyone. Sorry if I come across very blunt it's the way I speak in real life. I type exactly how I talk. some people can't deal with that as there is none of the pretty to make the words come out pretty. It's what it is. I have been this way for 40 yrs nothing is gonna change it now. being mean never entered into it when I said it. I feel bad that it was taken in such a way... It wasn't meant to be that way. So I apologize for the misunderstanding. I want everyone here to win succeed... and feel good about themselves... This surgery was likely the hardest thing I have ever done and the best gift to myself and my kids...

[VSGAnn2014 12,992]

THE RETURN KEY IS THE ENTER KEY.

PLEASE USE IT!

YOU'RE PRODUCING WALLS OF TEXT.

AND ONE PERIOD IS SUFFICIENT.

That is all.

[LipstickLady 25,682]

I have no idea where the return key is... or I don't see it. Sorry If I didn't do it right. I thought it was how we answered responded. Forgive for being newer here and not understanding the way it works. I will also address Lipstick. I didn't say my way was right nor wrong.... I am concerned that if she doesn't want to follow docs advice before she has even had surgery... she might want to think long and hard on what she is doing. It is hard to tell emotions by typed words... I don't want her to be curled in a ball for hours it is horrid and to be able to save someone that possible kind of pain.. matters to me... I was simply speaking my mind trying to open her up to more. Never meant in a rude or unkind way. Simply put I say what I think and why... I think it depends on the person reading it how they take it. It was never meant in meanness or in a way to cause harm... but to give a person something to think about...http://www.amylhwilliams.com/pouchrulesfordummies.html For ten years, I had patients eat until full with cottage cheese every three months, and report the amount of cottage cheese they were able to eat before feeling full. This gave me an idea of the size of their pouch at three month intervals. I found there was a regular growth in the amount of intake of every single pouch. The average date the pouch stopped growing was two years. After the second year, all pouches stopped growing. Most pouches ended at 6 oz., with some as large at 9-10 ozs. Pouches can and do change in size... according to the article... it was a study done...

So your first problem is that the article you are quoting is for bypass patients. Unless you clicked on the wrong option in your profile, you had a sleeve.

That's comparing apples to puppies.

Your argument here is moot.

[LipstickLady 25,682]

Your second issue is that the article was originally written in 1980. A lot has happened in the medical field in the last 36 years.

[VSGAnn2014 12,992]

The differences between the sleeve and the RnY (gastric bypass) pouch are numerous.

Sometimes people use the two terms interchangeably. But as I understand it, a sleeve and a pouch are pretty different, e.g.:

* They're made of different parts of the stomach (the sleeve is made of the non-stretchy part of the stomach, and the pouch is made of the upper part of the stomach (both non-stretchy and stretchy parts).

* The RnY pouch doesn't have a valve at the bottom of the pouch that retards movement of food into the intestine. However, the sleeve retains the duodenal valve, which retards to some extent (depending on the type of food eaten) the speed with which food passes from the stomach into the small intestine.

* In gastric bypass surgery, the stomach isn't removed -- so the fundus (stretchy portion of the stomach) is left inside the body, able to produce ghrelin (the hunger hormone). In sleeve surgery, the fundus is removed, leaving the body with a greatly reduced amount of ghrelin and leaving the patient with a greatly reduced appetite.

[jintycb 721]

Thank you LipstickLady for pointing out that the article was about bypass and not VSG and also for the fact that it was written in 1980.

I did notice somewhere, way, way back in this thread that it was pointed out that a pouch pertains to the bypass and not to the sleeve. I was about to re-iterate the fact but you got there before me and put far more politely than I in my exasperation would have put it.

Think I'm off now to have a stroll through the timeline listings to see if anyone has had a good rant in the last couple of hours, or maybe posted another great thread like the Great Arse Face Experiment which will provide a little light entertainment for the end of my Friday evening.

Nighty night all.

[Beck90 189]

@@Cari Dickenson - I accept your apology.

I would like to hope that almost everyone who's gotten to the point of being cleared by insurance and is days away from beginning their pre-opp diet really understands what they're getting into and is willing to make the necessary changes (Now I'm sure there are some that.. aren't.. but I hope most are!)

Part of the reason I don't follow everything my surgeon says to the T is because frankly... I don't.. trust surgeons who lie to their patients..

To explain further: My surgeon had a teach just a couple of weeks ago that all of us being sleeved this month had to attend.. and stated quite plainly that drinking diet pop and using straws will stretch your new sleeve and ruin it.. careful research is telling me this is not true. Granted.. there may be any number of reasons why diet pop isn't that great for any of us - sleeved or not. And there has been (arguable) research about whether the artificial sweeteners in diet pop make you crave sugar more, but there has been absolutely no research showing that straws or diet pop can hurt your sleeve in any way... And I would think as a surgeon specializing in the area... if I can find other surgeons pointing that out.. and read the studies they cite... my own surgeon ought to be able to do to the same.. which means that he either doesn't bother reading recent research (which isn't good) or more likely knows he's lying to me and the rest of us but finds that acceptable if it means that we do what HE thinks is the best course of action.. perhaps he has our best interest at heart.. but lying is still unethical.. So now I don't trust the guy and I'd rather do my own research and ask people here...

To be fully honest.. I don't like my surgeon.. and now that I found out he has no problem lying to patients.. I don't TRUST him either.. which is worse.. but I'm stuck within my state because Medicaid is paying for my surgery. (This is a problem because I'm right on the state line and some really amazing hospitals are less than an hour away from me just across state line.. but I can't utilize them).. the oher potential hospitals are up around Chicago.. 4+ hours from me or in Springfield 3+ hours from me (and that one requires a mandatory weekly support group in person.. ) So I was really only left with one single hospital to go to.. and at that one single hospital... they don't give you any choice or say about what surgeon you get assigned.. For the most part 1 surgeon does about 80% of the sleeves and if you don't like him you aren't allowed to request the other... Same thing with the nutritionist.. They only have two.. and if you don't like the one you have.. too bad you're just stuck with her..

So.. in this cruddy situation.. I don't feel like I have a lot of options. But I DO feel safer researching on my own and asking people here than I do trusting a surgeon who I didn't mesh with to begin with but who then really broke my respect by being willing to lie to his patients :\

[Pinkgirl1234 761]

So you want to hear What???Nice ???I like chocolate cake but I stay away from it....I could go on but you only want to hear nice agreements....

[ladyinsouth 1]

This reminds me a lot of the "how soon after surgery can I start smoking cigarettes again" question. The answer is never. The answer is never for a variety of reasons. You know the reasons, everyone else knows the reasons, and yet you will always get a few people here on the forums looking to be told it's okay to do. It is simply NOT okay, just like eating cake isn't okay after surgery and taking NSAIDS isn't okay after surgery.

However, it's your body. No one has any right to tell you what to do with it. Even the surgeon's orders end where your own decisions begin. Can you drink diet soda without getting sick? Maybe... some people can, as you've read above. Should you be drinking soda, smoking, drinking booze frequently, taking NSAIDS, eating donuts for Breakfast? Of course not. you already know the answer to your own question, and you may be hard-pressed to find many people here who are going to pacify you and tell you it's okay. The fact is, a couple of people here saying "Yeah I do it and I'm fine" does not even being to measure up to and be an argument against the multitude of biological and scientific reasons it is not safe or healthy.

In the end, you've got to make your own decisions. If you decide to eat or drink something that can (and probably will) be harmful in the long run, then you're also going to have to deal with the consequences. Whatever you decide, I truly wish you nothing but health and happiness. I know how hard it is to go through this huge change and not even have the little comfort food/drinks we used to love. Good luck!

I smoke and like it or not I was smoking right after surgery. Is it good for me? DUH no. Will if impact my weight loss? NO! If others don't want to smoke that's fine - don't.

As for soda which was the actual question here I was a major soda addict prior to surgery 4 years ago - I have taken a sip now and then to maybe equal a full can over the course of 4 years and it's nasty to me now. Booze is empty calories but I stopped drinking in 2000 anyway so that wasn't an issue. Never heard any issue on the NSAIDS and I do take those occasionally for an inflamed sciatica that would totally disable me flat on my back on the couch for weeks at a time if I didn't. I also eat cake *GASP*. Come to think of it I eat anything I want now and have lost and maintained a 72 pound weight loss. I just don't eat the whole cake but if I want cake or ice cream I'll have a small portion.

I'm making steaks tonite for dinner which is a once a month occasion too.

There are some people that say to newbies or potential newbies that they can NEVER have cake again or NEVER have a steak again or NEVER have a hamburger or whatever... and it's annoying. Moderation is the key. One slice of pizza isn't going to make me gain my weight back nor will it lead to me getting to the point of again eating a large pizza in one nite.

But soda? I have never heard any doctor say it's ok and I have 7 friends who have had the surgery since I had mine. Well come to think of it one does still drink gingerale but she hasn't lost her weight either so ..... there ya go

Edited May 14, 2016 by ladyinsouth

[Babbs 14,680]

@@ladyinsouth

Yes, because I'm sure the ginger ale your friend is consuming is the only reason your friend hasn't "lost her weight".

*Rolls eyes*

[LipstickLady 25,682]

So you want to hear What???Nice ???I like chocolate cake but I stay away from it....I could go on but you only want to hear nice agreements....

Clearly you didn't actually read this thread.

[LondonHawk 39]

Clearly all the information regarding stretching of the sleeve, effects of diet soda on weight loss etc are observational as far as I can tell. I haven't seen any studies on stretching of the sleeve and what causes it besides the obvious overeating and there don't seem to be any causal studies on the effects of diet soda on stretching.

That being said I don't think a surgeon telling you he believes it will cause stretching or issues or is generally unhealthy and therefore suggesting that you avoid diet soda or carbonation in general makes him a liar, it just means that is his opinion and recommendation. In the absence of evidence physicians often form opinions and care plans based on their personal experience and belief. I would be more concerned if 9 out of 10 surgeons disagreed with that advice but clearly those numbers don't always hold up.

@Beck90- I would never let a surgeon operate on me if I didn't trust him! You have really got to address this issue with him. Take your studies and have the conversation and satisfy yourself that he is coming at this issue with your health in his mind. If you feel he isn't you need to find another Dr and or another way to fund your surgery. If you have complications this guy is going to be advising you and recommending treatment if your starting position is mistrustful that could be very dangerous.

@ladyinthsouth- It is great that you can do all that stuff and suffer no ill effect. I have never understood the smoking thing but ce la vie. I have eaten cake, pizza and all the other stuff you can imagine the net result of which is that I weighed 420lbs and had to have my stomach removed in an attempt to change my life so if it is all the same I will operate on the theory that I will NEVER cake and NEVER eat pizza because quite honestly I have eaten enough of those things for probably 10 lifetimes. For some of us this is like alcoholism I want those things, I can have those things, I just choose not to have them today. That is what works for me. Maybe I will feel different later but for this moment that is how I feel. I don't want to be where I was and not eating those things makes it possible. Same with diet soda it was part of an unhealthy life style which I am trying to distance myself from. I don't feel that I can make changes without altering my behavior and my relationship with food. I no longer use food as a treat or a reward. I want to just make the healthiest food choice I can today. I don't think I am in the minority here but maybe I am.

[Beck90 189]

Clearly all the information regarding stretching of the sleeve, effects of diet soda on weight loss etc are observational as far as I can tell. I haven't seen any studies on stretching of the sleeve and what causes it besides the obvious overeating and there don't seem to be any causal studies on the effects of diet soda on stretching.

That being said I don't think a surgeon telling you he believes it will cause stretching or issues or is generally unhealthy and therefore suggesting that you avoid diet soda or carbonation in general makes him a liar, it just means that is his opinion and recommendation. In the absence of evidence physicians often form opinions and care plans based on their personal experience and belief. I would be more concerned if 9 out of 10 surgeons disagreed with that advice but clearly those numbers don't always hold up.

@Beck90- I would never let a surgeon operate on me if I didn't trust him! You have really got to address this issue with him. Take your studies and have the conversation and satisfy yourself that he is coming at this issue with your health in his mind. If you feel he isn't you need to find another Dr and or another way to fund your surgery. If you have complications this guy is going to be advising you and recommending treatment if your starting position is mistrustful that could be very dangerous.

@ladyinthsouth- It is great that you can do all that stuff and suffer no ill effect. I have never understood the smoking thing but ce la vie. I have eaten cake, pizza and all the other stuff you can imagine the net result of which is that I weighed 420lbs and had to have my stomach removed in an attempt to change my life so if it is all the same I will operate on the theory that I will NEVER cake and NEVER eat pizza because quite honestly I have eaten enough of those things for probably 10 lifetimes. For some of us this is like alcoholism I want those things, I can have those things, I just choose not to have them today. That is what works for me. Maybe I will feel different later but for this moment that is how I feel. I don't want to be where I was and not eating those things makes it possible. Same with diet soda it was part of an unhealthy life style which I am trying to distance myself from. I don't feel that I can make changes without altering my behavior and my relationship with food. I no longer use food as a treat or a reward. I want to just make the healthiest food choice I can today. I don't think I am in the minority here but maybe I am.

I mean make make it sound pretty, but he stated as a -fact- (a fact being something repeatedly medically proven by testing) that drinking pop would stretch the sleeve and sabotage the surgery.. He never talked anything about how unhealthy it was (which certainly has its merits but wasn't something he even addressed) In any case.. he stated this as -fact-.. but it is not a fact.. it's actually been proven that that's a complete myth.. so.. to me.. if you perpetuate your OPINION and BELIEF as a FACT rather than your own opinion - that is a lie.

That said.. I don't distrust him as in like... an incompetant surgeon.. I don't distrust him to handle any complications that come up or advise me on those - he has a great record in that regards.. I just don't trust him to distribute nutritional / eating / sleeve / food / how to live after surgery advice.. which is fine with me.. I can live with that.. I can talk to my PCP (who knows a great deal about bariatrics, has doctored me for a decade and who I would trust unquestioningingly) . I can read medical articles.. I can come here to the forum and find very knowledgable people.. but I really don't have the option to seek out another surgeon.. So I'm making due with what I've got and making the best of the situation. The only other way I could fund my surgery would be to go to Mexico and self pay and I'll just say that's not.. even an option at this point so.. I just have to make the best of the situation and look out for myself.

In terms of what you said about alcoholism - I think that's a good comparison - for a lot of people it is.. for others its not.. I don't think you're in the minority in wanting to choose ONLY healthy things for your body because that is the way you feel safe.. and that's GOOD. I believe everyone should do what works for them and feels good for them personally. In my case.. I don't feel like my relationship to food is an addiction that I have to be wary of (i.e. that's not how I became overweight) so I don't fear that drinking some diet pop or what not.. will draw me back to the state I'm in now. But for some people that may not be true.. I can only state what I believe to be true in my own personal case.

[Beck90 189]

Clearly you didn't actually read this thread.

TWSS (JK LipstickLady - I couldn't resist though)

I put the warning I did on it because I had hoped that this thread could be information containing for those who do want to drink pop rather than becoming a thread about the merits of or non merits of having it post sugery which.. as it turns out doesn't appear to be possible.

[ladyinsouth 1]

@@ladyinsouth

Yes, because I'm sure the ginger ale your friend is consuming is the only reason your friend hasn't "lost her weight".

*Rolls eyes*

Wow did I say that was the ONLY reason? No but it sure doesn't help.