Conflicting Information From Doctors/Patients And My Fears

[stacyrg2 350]

I agree with what many are telling you. I'm 2 years post op and maintaining a 130 lb loss. I can eat anything and everything. Haven't been sick a single time from food since surgery. The difference is in what I choose to eat. Will I go to a restaurant and order a hamburger? Yep. But I order it without a bun. That way I have more room to eat the nutritionally dense meat rather than 2 bites of a burger with bun. I don't even miss the bun. I'm typing this while eating a salad with salmon. Wait, let me rephrase that. I'm eating a salmon filet with a few bites of salad until in satisfied. I truly think going into this process with an "everything in moderation" mentality is a recipe for disaster. I have a few friends who have tried it and after the first few years, when you can eat crap and lose weight, and the hard times set in, failed. Yes,gained their weight back. I decided for me, there isn't a hamburger bun, or a pizza, or a chicken wing that is worth putting my success at risk.

I wish you luck with whatever decision you decide

Sent from my iPhone using the BariatricPal App

[DeletedMember 715]

She is referring to Ghrelin. It's a hormone produced in your stomach that makes you feel hungry. In a sleeve they remove the part of your stomach that produces the bulk of Ghrelin, so for a period of time you will most likely not be hungry.

In an RNY bypass, your stomach is still there but produces significantly less ghrelin as that portion of your stomach is not receiving any food and this somehow lowers Ghrelin production.

I had RNY, and whatever the biological reason behind it, I can assure you I feel no hunger. I'm 5 weeks post op and have not felt even a touch of hunger. Occasional cravings, yes, but even those cravings are manageable because I know there is literally NO WAY I could eat what I'm actually craving without getting very sick.

[kmorri 1,689]

Sounds like you need to do some reading on what the sleeve surgery really is..... try this and read anything else you can find as well.....there's also lots of YouTube videos of the actual surgery if you're more visual...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleeve_gastrectomy

[2goldengirl 2,076]

I have to be honest - I think my wife is so desperate for me to have the surgery, because obviously she wants me to be healthy and live a long life with her, that she is somewhat sugar coating the sleeve so to speak. That instead of having 50 to 60 chicken wings (baked) at one siting, I will be able to have 5 to 10 just fine after a month or two, which is certainly a huge difference in calories, but allows me to still have the things I love on some level.

I am probably spelling it wrong, but my wife told me that they also remove something called Greenlan? - something that sends messages to your brain that you are hungry. Not really sure about that.

I would find it very unusual for a sleever to have the capacity to eat 5-10 wings, especially after a month or two. But here's the thing: when you aren't driven by hunger, having even ONE wing becomes an exercise not just in fueling your body, but in knowing that the first wing tastes the best.

It's very hard to describe the reality of having no hunger when hunger is a big driver for so many of us. We can't imagine being without it. I can honestly say I haven't had a single moment of hunger in the 6-1/2 weeks since my surgery. And yet I have enjoyed the food I've eaten immensely. I can't tell you how wonderful it is to eat a few bites of something I really enjoy, and not to "have" to keep eating because I'm still hungry.

Losing the hunger hasn't meant losing my enjoyment of my food. If anything, it's heightened it, because I no longer have the warring voices in my head "you need to stop, you've had enough...but I'm hungry and it tastes so good".

I ate my first artichoke of the season today. I live close to the artichoke-growing capitol of the world, and I always look forward to the season. I had a half of one, and I loved every single bite. I knew yesterday that my sleeve was ready for some vegetables (which I love, and didn't miss when my sleeve wasn't ready for them yet, it's funny how that works).

Because I have to eat more slowly, I am able to savor each bite more.

Edited April 24, 2016 by 2goldengirl

[OutsideMatchInside 10,166]

You can pretty much eat everything you like in moderation if you cook. There are healthy on plan substitutions for everything.

I have hot wings and pizza and all kinds of things but I cook them myself from scratch, they are low carb, nutritious and fit in with my plan. I plan my calories and macros for the day so I can have what I want.

I thought pre-op there was this possibility of a post-op deprived life, but my life and food choices are so much richer now. I eat high quality delicious food. When you only eat 4 oz at a time, the choice cuts of meat because suddenly easily affordable. Filet Mignon is surprising cheap when you are eating it in small portions. Lobster is a feast, etc.

You do have to adjust your attitude about food though, and if you are using food as some kind of emotional crutch you need to work that out before surgery.

BTW at 9 months I can only eat 2 chicken wings. What makes a chicken wing really varies these days since some of them are huge, but 2 and I am full, I might be able to have 2.5.

skip the sugary sauce and just use a hot wing sauce with no sugar. no carbs, tons of flavor and lots of crunch. They look and taste fried.

Edited April 24, 2016 by OutsideMatchInside

[Kindle 8,667]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, For those of you just 5-6 weeks out and happily feeling no hunger just know things will likely change. I had no appetite in the beginning. It was a struggle just to meet Protein and Fluid goals and I had NO interest in eating for 4-5 months. Getting my nutrition via IV would have been a welcome treat. By 6 months eating wasn't such a chore anymore, I actually enjoyed my teeny tiny meals again. By 10 months my appetite was pretty much back to normal but my tight restriction kept my portions in check. At 28 months out I have the hunger and appetite of a small horse. I still have restriction, but nothing like that first year.

I guess what I'm trying to "warn" you (and the OP) about is that the no hunger/gherlin thing is not something you can rely on. In the end, it's the issues we fix in our heads that make or break long term success. Don't underestimate the importance of figuring out how and why you got fat in the first place and make every effort to change those behaviors.

[2goldengirl 2,076]

@@Kindle, while I appreciate your caution, please know that for me, anyway, I'm fully aware that hunger may return in time.

But that in no way diminishes the value of being free from hunger right now. I'm taking each day as it comes, and enjoying the way things change.

For the OP, hunger is a major issue for him. I'm sure the idea of being free from hunger (for whatever period of time) is pretty hard to grasp.

[Hey Man 21]

I agree with what many are telling you. I'm 2 years post op and maintaining a 130 lb loss. I can eat anything and everything. Haven't been sick a single time from food since surgery. The difference is in what I choose to eat. Will I go to a restaurant and order a hamburger? Yep. But I order it without a bun. That way I have more room to eat the nutritionally dense meat rather than 2 bites of a burger with bun. I don't even miss the bun. I'm typing this while eating a salad with salmon. Wait, let me rephrase that. I'm eating a salmon filet with a few bites of salad until in satisfied. I truly think going into this process with an "everything in moderation" mentality is a recipe for disaster. I have a few friends who have tried it and after the first few years, when you can eat crap and lose weight, and the hard times set in, failed. Yes,gained their weight back. I decided for me, there isn't a hamburger bun, or a pizza, or a chicken wing that is worth putting my success at risk.

I wish you luck with whatever decision you decide

Sent from my iPhone using the BariatricPal App

But is that because you feel that you can't eat in moderation and burn away the calories through exercise - like healthy people do? You feel a chicken wing or a slice of pizza will ruin everything that you worked towards? That you can only have a ton of bad food or no bad food - there is no happy medium?

[Kindle 8,667]

@@Kindle, while I appreciate your caution, please know that for me, anyway, I'm fully aware that hunger may return in time.

But that in no way diminishes the value of being free from hunger right now. I'm taking each day as it comes, and enjoying the way things change.

For the OP, hunger is a major issue for him. I'm sure the idea of being free from hunger (for whatever period of time) is pretty hard to grasp.

I absolutely agree you should enjoy and take advantage of your freedom from hunger for as long as it lasts. In fact, some people do experience a permanent loss of hunger which is great. It's just that when I was preop and researching all of my surgical options, the loss of Gherlin was touted as such a bonus for VSG and made it sound like everything would be so "easy". No hunger=no eating, right?

But as more and more people have VSG and more data is collected from patients further out, it turns out the initial absence of Gherlin is not typically something you can rely on to help you be successful. I just think if more people knew how important the psychological aspect of obesity is and not concentrate so much on the physical part of the surgery there would be a lot less who regain. I'm not trying to be discouraging, just trying to provide the info I wished I'd had. In the end, it's our heads that need fixing, not our stomachs.

[Hey Man 21]

@@Hey Man,

These are great questions.

Unfortunately, nobody that you’ve asked is necessarily wrong. It is true that nobody knows exactly how things will turn out after the surgery. It’s a different experience for everyone.

Portion Control is a major, if not the biggest, problem for many pre-op sleeve (and other WLS) patients. Some patients find that the sleeve solves this problem. They really can’t eat big portions anymore because they get uncomfortably full. A few patients have an extreme response: they have trouble getting in enough calories from healthy foods, and need to turn to shakes for supplementation.

The most likely is that you will feel the restriction, especially in the first year, but it will not do all the work for you. That is, you will still need to measure your portions and end your meal when you have eaten the pre-measured portion, and not necessarily when you are satisfied. There is probably going to be a certain amount of “head hunger” that remains. That’s the desire to eat even if you don’t need it physiologically. That’s something that you may need to fight forever.

Chances are good that you could theoretically eat around your sleeve if you choose slider foods.

I completely agree that an occasional wing or piece of pizza should be part of your life (at least several months after surgery, anyway) if you want it. There’s a good chance it will take a while for you to be able to tolerate certain foods, but chances are you eventually will be able to have the occasional junky choice and the spicy foods you love. There’s no guarantee, though. There’s also a chance spicy foods could cause heartburn.

Some patients find that they are able to have a small amount of a treat, feel satisfied, and move on. Others find that they need to stay away completely to avoid going overboard. If you’re that second type, eating a few wings could turn into a big problem. If you’re the first type, you should be able to indulge the occasional craving.

I think you are very wise to be thinking about “forever” and not just a year or a few years.

About hair loss, you can’t really control it. You can do your best to lower your chances of Hair loss by getting enough Protein, taking Biotin and your other supplements, and doing other things to stay healthy like reducing stress.

Good luck with your decision! I am so glad you are weighing everything carefully and reaching out with your questions.

Great post - thank you.

I am glad that you see both sides and it's NOT all or nothing.

And I said before - portion control is my main problem. So I am more the first type - I just want to be able to have a bit of the things that I love, feel satisfied and move on.

[Hey Man 21]

You can pretty much eat everything you like in moderation if you cook. There are healthy on plan substitutions for everything.

I have hot wings and pizza and all kinds of things but I cook them myself from scratch, they are low carb, nutritious and fit in with my plan. I plan my calories and macros for the day so I can have what I want.

I thought pre-op there was this possibility of a post-op deprived life, but my life and food choices are so much richer now. I eat high quality delicious food. When you only eat 4 oz at a time, the choice cuts of meat because suddenly easily affordable. Filet Mignon is surprising cheap when you are eating it in small portions. Lobster is a feast, etc.

You do have to adjust your attitude about food though, and if you are using food as some kind of emotional crutch you need to work that out before surgery.

BTW at 9 months I can only eat 2 chicken wings. What makes a chicken wing really varies these days since some of them are huge, but 2 and I am full, I might be able to have 2.5.

skip the sugary sauce and just use a hot wing sauce with no sugar. no carbs, tons of flavor and lots of crunch. They look and taste fried.

So for example - you would never be able to have a little salad, two small chicken wings or a small chicken breast and a little rice for example? It's two chicken wings and you are done?

I guess everyone is different, but even my wife is eating more than the amount of meat on two chicken wings with her bypass and she is doing incredible with losing weight. She will have a piece of salmon, some veggies and some fruit for desert.

[VSGAnn2014 12,992]

To the OP:

After reading all your responses to everyone, I think, yeah -- you shouldn't have WLS.

You're not even close to understanding or being able to make the changes necessary to be a successful WLS patient in the long-term.

For some reason, even though you weigh 440 pounds and think that eating 50 buffalo wings means you have a "portion problem," you think you can negotiate the terms of what it will take to reach a normal weight and become healthy.

Get a therapist. That's not an insult. It's sincere advice.

[OutsideMatchInside 10,166]

@@Hey Man

I mean maybe down the line. I am 9 months out. If I eat Protein first. I don't have room for anything else right now.

I didn't eat rice before surgery and I don't eat it now. I will sometimes have riced Cauliflower as my side item.

3 oz of spinach is 20 calories and a lot of spinach. I have my veggies as Snacks between my Protein meals but i don't eat them with my meals.

I know someone who had bypass and 2.5 years out they can eat like a normal person just smaller. I think most people with the sleeve are like that also.

Honestly, you are focusing on the wrong things. How much food you can eat and when should not be what makes you decide on surgery. Your health and quality of life should be the deciding factors.

Right now I can walk into any store and shop for clothes. I can fit comfortably in seats everywhere. I have a ton of energy and I am more active with less stress on my body. I really don't give a damn about food. I have so many other great things going on in my life, that food is my fuel so I can do all the the other things. I don't have to worry about the pain in my knees, back, or diabetes and high blood pressure anymore. My biggest concern right now is how many times I can wear my new clothes before they are too big, And that is a great "problem" to have.

Edited April 25, 2016 by OutsideMatchInside

[Hey Man 21]

To the OP:

After reading all your responses to everyone, I think, yeah -- you shouldn't have WLS.

You're not even close to understanding or being able to make the changes necessary to be a successful WLS patient in the long-term.

For some reason, even though you weigh 440 pounds and think that eating 50 buffalo wings means you have a "portion problem," you think you can negotiate the terms of what it will take to reach a normal weight and become healthy.

Get a therapist. That's not an insult. It's sincere advice.

No worries - I have seen many a therapist.

I do think some people here have an all or nothing position, where as others say that it doesn't have to be that way to be successful per my comments to Alex Brecher (in response to his comments).

The thing is - the doctors/nutritionists may tell me that I am not ready to have the surgery, so we shall see. It may not even be a choice that I make. They can not allow me to have the surgery if they feel that I am not ready.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Hey Man

[Valentina 2,642]

My turn:

This June I will be 5 years out from the day I had 90% of my stomach removed. The following are my daily "companions"

I am one of the 17% of sleevers who experience Dumping Syndrome.

I can not tolerate anything spicy--even bar-b-q sauce makes me vomit--or wanting to

I can not tolerate anything overly sweet without dumping.

I can not tolerate anything overly rich or greasy without dumping.

I do NOT feel any hunger.

I have to set my cell phone alarm to remind me to eat or risk getting a Migraine

Five years out and I can maybe eat two chicken wings--maybe---not spicy.

If nothing else, I have learned to work with my sleeve, not against it. I take its "will" as sacrosanct. I still feel its restriction and when it says, "enough", my fork goes down--not one mouthful more- or risk "hitting the wall" and dumping.

Was I a happy fat woman? You bet! I had WLS because my bones could no longer support my weight. When I could no longer do the activities that I could do and my options were either have WLS or end up in a wheelchair, well--no brainer. Do I regret being sleeved? Not for one second these days.

Your body sounds to me like it is shouting to you,"HELP ME!", but your brain is not listening. When the time comes and your brain is finally in sync with your body, then and only then will you know what to do. There won't be any "this or that", "what ifs", "but I heard this" or " if only". You will know.

Sound simple? yep. When the time is right, it is that simple.

Then you will be ready.

Prayers going up for you.