Are We All Doing This Too Soon?

[Gigi_Girl 77]

missmeow, you refer to short term memory loss. I have not heard of this. Can you give us a research link? Is it due to anesthesia or something with the procedure itself?

[girliegirl 49]

i can totally understand someone who is doing surgery because they have poor health, but what about those who don't have poor health issues at the moment? i mean, for example....me! i am 41 years old, happily married with 2 beautiful kids. I have no major health complications right now. I would love to lose 80lbs or so and keep it off for life. i battle with weight all the time and i hate myself for looking the way i do. there is no reason for it yet i can't do anything much about it, so it seems. i am desperate! i am uncomfortable. i have high blood pressure that i keep under control with a diaretic for now. maybe one day ill need to get real meds for it. my mother has diabetes so I'm sure if i continue being this heavy I'm afraid i too will have that as i get older. but right now, i don't have any of these things? thats why i struggle a bit more with my decision than that of a person who has health issues. if you have major health issues its almost like you can justify taking the risk. I'm meeting with another dr on monday so I'm hoping my head will become clearer on this. I'm sorry for the initial post on this topic but its a good way for us to all share our thoughts and it helps me to read what others think and feel.

[Carly 56]

i can totally understand someone who is doing surgery because they have poor health' date=' but what about those who don't have poor health issues at the moment? i mean, for example....me! i am 41 years old, happily married with 2 beautiful kids. I have no major health complications right now. I would love to lose 80lbs or so and keep it off for life. i battle with weight all the time and i hate myself for looking the way i do. there is no reason for it yet i can't do anything much about it, so it seems. i am desperate! i am uncomfortable. i have high blood pressure that i keep under control with a diaretic for now. maybe one day ill need to get real meds for it. my mother has diabetes so I'm sure if i continue being this heavy I'm afraid i too will have that as i get older. but right now, i don't have any of these things? thats why i struggle a bit more with my decision than that of a person who has health issues. if you have major health issues its almost like you can justify taking the risk. I'm meeting with another dr on monday so I'm hoping my head will become clearer on this. I'm sorry for the initial post on this topic but its a good way for us to all share our thoughts and it helps me to read what others think and feel.[/quote']

I am 47 and have no health problems that I know of. I wanted to lose about the same amount as you. My problem is I have been "trying" to do this for about 16 years to no avail. Add to that the fact that every year from that time, I gained a bit more weight- not so much as to be noticed at that time, but when I looked back I could see the future, so to speak. And that future was keeping me feeling negative and grumpy about my life and myself. I had a continuing negative inner voice chiding me about my ineptitude and failures.

I have a father and sister who are overweight and battle with the same issues I have, so for me, I didn't see too much hope in my being able to break the cycle of my tormenting. I knew I needed something more to shore me up in my battle, and this is what I decided. For me, so far, it has been a blessing, in that I am not running to food to Celebrate or make me feel better. With that ability in my hand, I am able to be stronger and feel positive about myself.

It's a personal decision of course. I just didn't like the road I was on, and I needed some help in turning the wheel.

Good luck in your decision.

[Lissa 2,631]

Girlie girl, I was perfectly healthy until I got pneumonia last may. I had even lost 50 pounds on Atkins the year before. The pneumonia kicked me into the danger zone fast, causing a blood clot and two pulmonary embolisms. That also started issues with asthma and sleep apnea.

Just because your obesity hasn't caused problems YET does not mean that it won't kill you tomorrow. Mine tried really hard to kill me and I still have major residual effects from that one round of pneumonia!

Lissa

[Mr_Worm 129]

I'm still on the fence. I haven't made up my mind for myself. Everyone has to make their own decision but I am right where the OP is.

The fact is, no one knows for sure what the long term results will be. We can guess they will be good, as the 6 year results are showing a 50% weight loss compared to 70% at 3 years, which is as good if not better than RNY without all the rerouting. 50% is still much more than anyone would lose and keep off for 5 years with diet and exercise. If the average sleever has 100lbs to lose, 50lbs is enough to get someone from morbidly obese to simply obese or even overweight. So the weight related health issues should be negated. (I have to confess that I do not believe the BMI is a good measure of health and some people can carry more weight than others without health consequences. So even if they are overweight or even obese, currently about 30lbs over ideal weight, they can still be perfectly healthy long term.) There have been cases of people with nutritional deficiencies and reading this board, short term memory might be an issue too.

The thing I get stuck on is that bariatric surgery has a horrible history when it comes to end results, quality of life and longevity. Part of that is due to the relative health of many of the patients. Another part is the surgeries themselves (JIB, VBG). The lapband was heralded as the most awesome thing ever but now, 10 years out, people now know it isn't so great and it is not a life-time solution. Many of the people here are here because their band failed in as little as 6 months. That is terrible when you think about it. Why wouldn't a bandster question the sleeve? The band failed, the sleeve might too and once it's gone, it's gone.

For those who have made the choice to do it, more power to them. I applaud anyone who is definitive in their choices and sticks with it. Reading your posts certainly encourages me to go through with it because so many of you are doing great. But I'm otherwise healthy and looking at a solid 35, 40, 50 years ahead, life with only 15% of my stomach intact and the potential for long term nutrient deficiencies, memory loss, etc is something not to be jumped into lightly, kwim? I think this is the headspace the OP is sitting in. It is where I am right now. One day, I am like, I am going for it, I am IN! The next day, I am like, no way am I going there.

The plusses to the surgery are that the pylorus is still intact, so at least the stomach does do its normal job which is totally different than a regular gastrectomy. It does annoy me a bit that people compare the two when the comparison is not exactly the same. The other thing is that a gastrectomy for cancer, where sucess is measured by surviving 5 years, is such a completely different set of factors than an elective surgery for weight loss. I know there are many people who have no stomach at all and are living, but then the quality of life issue pops up. It's one thing when it is done for survival and another when it is done for essentially for vanity (in my case it would be). Of course, is quality of life that great as a fat person? Some would say no, not at all.

I wish there was an inbetween the band and sleeve. They have the endolumial barrier that is showing good results but only in the experimental phase, which means another 5 years. I don't want to wait that long. I wish there was a choice in size. Not because my "fat head" wants to eat but because I feel it would mitigate some of the potential nutritional issues long term. I would rather revise later than be stuck.

Sorry for the livejournal post but it's helping me work my head around somethings.

Always remember the Sleeve is only a TOOL. The long term success with any weightloss surgery is up to the person and their habits and lifestyle.

[Rootman 1,101]

Guys you may be healthy now but it WILL get you in one way or the other. BP, blood sugar, sleep apnea, you name it - being obese or MORBIDLY obese you are headed down that path - GUARANTEED. Stuff didn't really hit me till I was almost 50 years old, then I started to fall apart. So why not nip it in the bud? After almost a year and a half ALL my issues are resolved. BP is down, sugar is stable. Last months labs were stellar (second lab in a row that way) cholesterol is 133 triglycerides is 64.

Why wait till your older and feeling crappy and having major issues? If your obese and qualify and can get it done than my advice is DON'T WAIT till you HAVE to do something, preempt it and do something NOW.

Also, it may be true that there isn't a decades long record for this EXACT surgery what the other posters mentioned is still valid, MANY people for the last few decades, even a century have lived, thrived and survived by having a large portion of their stomachs removed. The stomach was one organ that even surgeons in the 1800's knew we could live without and many had it sectioned or completely removed due to injury, cancer or major ulcer issues.

It's the least invasive of the bariatric surgeries - and I count the band here too as in MY book sticking a plastic gizmo in your gut is VERY invasive.- and it simply works.

Please come to terms with this BEFORE you make the decision. I encourage you to do SOMETHING before your health deteriorates and you are faced with dire circumstances.

[Wheetsin 714]

I'm just wondering if any of you might have thought or wondered if we are jumping into this sleeve surgery too soon? i mean, it hasn't been around that long so the long term stats are still unknown. i mean isn't this what we did when the band came out and now we say to ourselves if we only knew then what we know now we would have made different choices. i don't want to be in the same situation a few years down the road with the sleeve as i was with the band. does this make any sense to anyone?

To be fair, you're mostly asking people who've already had it done, so they probably didn't think it was too soon.

The first Duodenal (which I'm assuming would have included the first VSG) switch was performed in 1988. Prior to that - gastrectomies had been in use for a very long time, just not for weightloss. The first gastrectomy for cancer was done in 1881 (Billroth - and not a "sleeve" per se, but still gastrectomy). Removal of the greater curvature of the stomach for reasons other than weightloss really aren't new at all. It's just the "as a bariatric procedure" that's new (well, if you count having been performed for > 20 years as new).

Even gastrectomies done for cancer/ulcer are different than the sleeve. Those are Billroth I/II or RNY and the top part of the stomach is typically left behind and the bottom part and pylorus goes.

I think this is majority true, but certainly has exceptions (your use of "typically" is well noted). For those not familiar with these or the difference, Billroth I connects to the duodenum, Billroth II connects to the jejunum - which is performed depends on how much/exactly what has to be removed. When I was first researching the sleeve (with the help of a friend who is a very good surgeon and an even better researcher), removal of the fundus and greater curvature of the stomach was done for gastric cancer (retaining the pylorus and pyloric valve, removing the fundus and some amount of the greater curvature) around 1950. I think cancers of the gastric fundus are generally treated through a sleeve procedure, unless the cardia is also affected (but by no means am I sure).

I'm a band revision, and honestly - I never believed it would be with me forever. I was banded earlier than most, and even then I knew that chances were it would come out at one point. I hoped it might, but never trusted. Even 6 or 7 years ago it was very carefully stated that it was intended to be a permanent implant, but... And the band isn't causing a high rate of physical complications (things like erosion are still fairly low stats), it's just mechanically failing a lot. It's also one of the only procedures out there that can mechanically fail.

With what's available right now, my firm opinion is that the VSG is the way to go IF you are a personality that can be responsible for a restrictive procedure.

Maybe it's too soon, I guess more time can always tell something new. But I think it has been used long enough to be a calculated, well-researched risk. A much better risk than sitting around waiting for the next greatest thing, which probably will be brand new, so then you'd be waiting another 10 - 20 years to start seeingthe mid-long term research coming out...

[missmeow 156]

Always remember the Sleeve is only a TOOL. The long term success with any weightloss surgery is up to the person and their habits and lifestyle.

I am really confused as to which part of my post this is in respose to? I am not trying to be rude but I do not see how any of that connects to any of the points I made.

It is also frustrating to see this type of response as a catch-all, kind of response pop up in every other thread.

Also, there is no "GUARANTEE" of anything in life. A lot, if not most, people start having health problems at that age of all shapes, sizes, and colors. My mom is fit, healthy, heavy into fitness and got breast cancer in her early 50s. In fact, most of the thin people on that side of the family died young. The people who were built like refrigerators? Lived to be old and all of them were active. Obviously, the heavier you are, the more likely you are to have problems and it certainly isn't healthy to be morbidly obese. Likewise, losing weight does not guarantee that you will not get diabetes, cancer, or heart disease.

I think this is majority true, but certainly has exceptions (your use of "typically" is well noted). For those not familiar with these or the difference, Billroth I connects to the duodenum, Billroth II connects to the jejunum - which is performed depends on how much/exactly what has to be removed. When I was first researching the sleeve (with the help of a friend who is a very good surgeon and an even better researcher), removal of the fundus and greater curvature of the stomach was done for gastric cancer (retaining the pylorus and pyloric valve, removing the fundus and some amount of the greater curvature) around 1950. I think cancers of the gastric fundus are generally treated through a sleeve procedure, unless the cardia is also affected (but by no means am I sure).

With what's available right now, my firm opinion is that the VSG is the way to go IF you are a personality that can be responsible for a restrictive procedure.

Thank you for the response. In researching the background for gastrectomy, the majority of the artices were based on the Bilroth I/II and it appears that most of the cancers are lower in the stomach. This certainly points me to the right direction in looking for more information.

Like I said, I am on the fence and just sharing some of the thoughts I am having, which is to answer the OP.

[DesertRat 32]

I've had some moments of doubt but at this point I am favoring having the procedure mid summer. Losing any tissue is a matter for serious concern. I don't give up pieces of myself lightly and, other than my wisdom teeth, an appendix, some bone spurs and a meniscus I've managed to hang onto all of my various parts for 57 years now. Unfortunately, even though I'm physically active I have several co-morbidities. Hypertension (controlled with medication), apnea and an HA1C in the pre-diabetic range are the big ticket items. I fear diabetes and do not want to go there if at all possible. According to all that I've found in my research, the VSG seems like the safest bet.

If I have the sleeve there is a possibility of regret but if I don't take some decisive action there is a much greater possibility of regret.

[Dooter 1,457]

I couldn't reach my butt anymore to wipe it. I didn't go in a moment too soon. That's all I know.

[billemtp2003 3]

I am a nurse I just turnned 40 thought I had life by the balls. My BMi was 40 thought I dident have any health problems. Started with gout went to have my carpal tunnel fixed and had severe high bp. Started taking meds for that. Then my hips and knees and low back constantly ached. The weight piled on and then sleep apnea. I say these things because I have seen the long term effects of obesity. And people who had bypass I woul never have bypass unless I had to. I had a lot of the same feelings you are having. The sleve has been done for many years as the first part of a 2 part bypass in very large people who could not tolerate the entire bypass surgery and they lost several hondered pounds then had the bypass. I think this is the safest of all the procedures. I know it has been said this is only a tool and you can not do the things you are to do and you will regain your weight. It involves life changes that you can do. It is never too late to starting to be healthier. I was 293 before I started my preop diet I am down to 250 in 6 weeks I feel better than I have in 10 years. I want to eat healthy and exercise now. Obeasity is a bad cycle the bigger we get the less energy more depressed we get the more we eat. Stop the cycle now. It will only get worse. The sleve has changed my life

[thebionicbroad 127]

Much of my depression was based on a pervasive sense of self-hatred for being so fat. (I was an obese low-carber.) Even after trying everything, including a Lap-band, I was getting fatter every year. My blood pressure was creeping up. Fasting blood glucose readings were creeping up, too. My ankles were swelling. My liver enzymes were not so great, and my kidney function was affected by stone formation. My left knee was going, and my hips were constantly sore. I was clumsy, and was always getting bruises. I needed physical therapy for my left shoulder. Felt 85, not 55. Insurance covered my revision, but based on results over the last 5 months, I would self-pay with no hesitation. The sleeve gave me my life and sanity back. Even if doctors found out that the sleeve resulted in growing a second nose on the side of the face, I would buy extra Kleenex and move on with my life. I weigh less than I have weighed since I was 18, and I feel 20 years younger. Come what may, I made the right decision for me.

[DesertRat 32]

Much of my depression was based on a pervasive sense of self-hatred for being so fat. (I was an obese low-carber.) Even after trying everything' date=' including a Lap-band, I was getting fatter every year. My blood pressure was creeping up. Fasting blood glucose readings were creeping up, too. My ankles were swelling. My liver enzymes were not so great, and my kidney function was affected by stone formation. My left knee was going, and my hips were constantly sore. I was clumsy, and was always getting bruises. I needed physical therapy for my left shoulder. Felt 85, not 55. Insurance covered my revision, but based on results over the last 5 months, I would self-pay with no hesitation. The sleeve gave me my life and sanity back. Even if doctors found out that the sleeve resulted in growing a second nose on the side of the face, I would buy extra Kleenex and move on with my life. I weigh less than I have weighed since I was 18, and I feel 20 years younger. Come what may, I made the right decision for me.[/quote']

That feeling of defeat caused by not being able to control weight, that's the discouraging thing for me.

[Mr_Worm 129]

I am really confused as to which part of my post this is in respose to? I am not trying to be rude but I do not see how any of that connects to any of the points I made.

It is also frustrating to see this type of response as a catch-all, kind of response pop up in every other thread.

Also, there is no "GUARANTEE" of anything in life. A lot, if not most, people start having health problems at that age of all shapes, sizes, and colors. My mom is fit, healthy, heavy into fitness and got breast cancer in her early 50s. In fact, most of the thin people on that side of the family died young. The people who were built like refrigerators? Lived to be old and all of them were active. Obviously, the heavier you are, the more likely you are to have problems and it certainly isn't healthy to be morbidly obese. Likewise, losing weight does not guarantee that you will not get diabetes, cancer, or heart disease.

Thank you for the response. In researching the background for gastrectomy, the majority of the artices were based on the Bilroth I/II and it appears that most of the cancers are lower in the stomach. This certainly points me to the right direction in looking for more information.

Like I said, I am on the fence and just sharing some of the thoughts I am having, which is to answer the OP.

My response was in response to your question about there being no long term results for the VSG.

[PdxMan 4,292]

Always remember the Sleeve is only a TOOL. The long term success with any weightloss surgery is up to the person and their habits and lifestyle.

It is also frustrating to see this type of response as a catch-all, kind of response pop up in every other thread.

I hear you, MissMeow, but if you have been reading the threads, then you also see that this is a reminder which must constantly be reinforced. There are so many sleevers who have not, IMO, researched the process thoroughly enough to be fully aware of what they are getting into. There are soooo many threads from folks who post things like, "I'm 4 months out and not losing any weight! I admit I am not eating the healthiest foods and am not exercising, but I should still be losing weight, right?"

So, this type of response is a reminder that this is a tool which they must work. The sleeve is not a magic bullet to solve their weight issues.

Now ... if we could only get folks to use the search function prior to being sleeved ...