Why? ? ?

[WingRider 1]

What posts are you talking about? I follow all of the Dr. Almanza posts since he was my surgeon.

Here are links to the three that I have been following, one of them for months.

http://verticalsleevetalk.com/vertical-sleeve-gastrectomy-vsg-surgeons-hospitals/1334-dr-mario-alberto-almanza-reyes-21.html#post28242

http://verticalsleevetalk.com/vertical-sleeve-gastrectomy-vsg-surgeons-hospitals/410-dr-mario-almanza-2.html#post24908

http://verticalsleevetalk.com/post-operation-vertical-sleeve-gastric-surgery-vsg-questions-answers/3005-what-emmanuelle-jerusalem-clinic-like-2.html#post29124

http://verticalsleevetalk.com/tell-your-story/2613-major-complications-emmanuel-medical-center.html

A couple of these threads are the typical positive endorsements and a couple of them are very negative and paint a horrible picture for Emmanuel Clinic. These threads are still here and easily found from the search function. I am not here to defend Dr. Almanza or Dr. Battencourte, rather I am here to defend VST. I don't see where these posts are being removed. If I am wrong I am sorry for my error.

On a side note, I am glad that I got my surgery over and done with. I gained a lot of info from this site and I hope that the new people will continue to gain insight into what I think is a wonderful procedure. I had hoped that this site would be a valuable asset to me in my battle against obesity, but I am finding it to just be a place where the old timers can rehash past arguements/conflicts and doesn't really help me anymore.

Bill

[carolyn24seven 11]

Oh Bill, I hope you are into other threads than just those. Dr. Almanza was my surgeon also, but I continue to get lots of great help and support from this board. I just go into other threads. Stay with us Bill, we can help you and we are willing.

Carolyn:thumbup:

What posts are you talking about? I follow all of the Dr. Almanza posts since he was my surgeon.

Here are links to the three that I have been following, one of them for months.

http://verticalsleevetalk.com/vertical-sleeve-gastrectomy-vsg-surgeons-hospitals/1334-dr-mario-alberto-almanza-reyes-21.html#post28242

http://verticalsleevetalk.com/vertical-sleeve-gastrectomy-vsg-surgeons-hospitals/410-dr-mario-almanza-2.html#post24908

http://verticalsleevetalk.com/post-operation-vertical-sleeve-gastric-surgery-vsg-questions-answers/3005-what-emmanuelle-jerusalem-clinic-like-2.html#post29124

http://verticalsleevetalk.com/tell-your-story/2613-major-complications-emmanuel-medical-center.html

A couple of these threads are the typical positive endorsements and a couple of them are very negative and paint a horrible picture for Emmanuel Clinic. These threads are still here and easily found from the search function. I am not here to defend Dr. Almanza or Dr. Battencourte, rather I am here to defend VST. I don't see where these posts are being removed. If I am wrong I am sorry for my error.

On a side note, I am glad that I got my surgery over and done with. I gained a lot of info from this site and I hope that the new people will continue to gain insight into what I think is a wonderful procedure. I had hoped that this site would be a valuable asset to me in my battle against obesity, but I am finding it to just be a place where the old timers can rehash past arguements/conflicts and doesn't really help me anymore.

Bill

[Tiffykins 672]

The most recent thread posted by secretgarden is GONE, and she is no longer listed in the member section.

There are other replies in those threads listed that have been edited and/or completely deleted.

Like I stated in my first post, I understand this is a business. I comprehend the concept of making money, but at what cost is a site willing to lose it's integrity.

I would consider myself an "old timer" since I joined the day the site was split-off from lapbandtalk.com

However, I empathize with those struggling and Celebrate with those that have great success regardless of who performed their surgery. I contribute to this site on a very regular and daily basis. I welcome almost every new member, and attempt to provide support, and answers to those members seeking it. I'm not sure how my posts/replies could be misconstrued with rehashing old arguments and conflicts. I had my surgery performed here in Florida. I have zero ties or relationship with any of the surgeons, but I do believe that all the information should be available for review at any patient's discretion. I physically speak with several members on the forum who need someone to talk with them. I've offered to be a mentor, I've cheered on many of the post-ops through some of the same struggles. So, while I'm not offended by your accusations, I surely believe that my support and advice has been viewed by many as just that support and advice.

[WingRider 1]

I wasn't trying to offend you Tiffykins, and as I stated in my earlier post I would be sorry if i was in error. I agree, secretgarden's posts have been removed. I understand now what you are referring to.

Bill

[Oregondaisy 2,019]

I am completely disgusted that secretgarden's post/thead is gone. I used to be a moderator at lap band talk and I started posting on that board before it split off and this board was started.

I am seriously thinking I don't want to post here anymore because I thought this would be one board where people could be truthful about their experiences and it would not be sensored. It is obviously not the case.

I don't want to be a part of a board where complications and bad experiences are hidden from people doing research on which doctor to choose.

[Alex Brecher 10,484]

I know everybody has these amazing conspiracy theories drawn up in their head. I really try hard to keep these forums as equal handed as possible. We've had a HUGE influx of posts coming from Mexico as well as other locations that are clearly from people that have only one purpose in mind, to ruin the reputation of another surgeon.

We've also received multiple cease and desist letters regarding certain posts and members. If you're willing to pay the legal costs involved in fighting them, please PM me and I'll bring you on board.

If someone had a first hand story that's been deleted and I can verify that they were a patient of the named surgeon, I'd be willing to discuss reposting to the board, if it's not on our C&D list.

[Tiffykins 672]

I know everybody has these amazing conspiracy theories drawn up in their head. I really try hard to keep these forums as equal handed as possible. We've had a HUGE influx of posts coming from Mexico as well as other locations that are clearly from people that have only one purpose in mind, to ruin the reputation of another surgeon.

We've also received multiple cease and desist letters regarding certain posts and members. If you're willing to pay the legal costs involved in fighting them, please PM me and I'll bring you on board.

If someone had a first hand story that's been deleted and I can verify that they were a patient of the named surgeon, I'd be willing to discuss reposting to the board, if it's not on our C&D list.

So, do all of the wonderful experiences of said surgeons/facilities need to be verified as well? Because, how can we be sure that they are not "paid posters" or imposters trying to just stir up business with lies. The reason I ask is because is be it seems like even when someone has a legitamate complaint or bad experience the thread is C&D based on an assumption that they are simply out to smear the reputation of a particular surgeon. Why are all the wonderful, sugarcoated, overly satisfied customer/patients not questioned?

I don't believe in conspiracy theories, but I do believe the almighty dollar speaks volumes. If someone is padding a man's pocket, that man is going to ensure that it remains padded.

Within the thread I had questioned, it was verified that those particular US patients were indeed patients at this facility. The member Time-For-Me verified she spoke with them, and heard the information firsthand. Yet, it was deleted.

Would someone have to disclose their own financial statements to prove they were there when said events occurred?

Edited January 21, 2010 by Tiffykins

[youknowit 11]

I don't want to sound like a nosey bi***, but perhaps you are getting poor legal advice, Alex? C&D letters are only of value, legally (and otherwise), when what someone is doing is indeed defamatory, or intentionally malicious. If this is the case, I totally support your upholding the legality of the C&D, however, let us also not forget that a defensable C&D across international borders is generally a bark with no bite...

I would encourage you to check out some information at this website, which is a joint clearinghouse project between the Electronic Frontier Foundation, Harvard, Berkeley, and a number of other law schools here in the US. They focus on first amendment rights, responsibilities, and the venue of online posting, discussion, etc.

Chilling Effects Clearinghouse

[Jaffa 5]

I'm sorry that people are finding out that it works this way on websites, but frankly it doesn't matter which ones you go to, this is how it works.

Take the good stuff and support, but when it comes to the money trail, you can't trust much on a forum. That means that, yes, bad posts about someone true or not, will be deleted and future people may not realize this simple fact. A website just doesn't serve the purpose of researching who to buy from, in any product.

I'm sorry if this bothers people, it used to bother me, but now I realize that is just the way it is on all websites. Come to grip with it, and just get the good out of what you can. Thats my advice, or it could drive you insane.

You want to talk crazy stuff....I had to pay to keep my old website for 3 years because of a stupid court order, but no one could actually read the site. I just had to maintain it for their stupid lawsuit.

[Oregondaisy 2,019]

So I guess what Alex is saying is that if people have good experiences with their doctor, it's okay to post about it. If they have a bad experience with a dr. like secret garden did, they have to keep their mouth shut.

How does that seem right, Alex?

[carolyn24seven 11]

I think I get it. This board is to be used for information about how to deal with any problems that occur Pre and Post VSG surgery. food issues, head issues, body issues. This board is not to be used to determine which surgeon you should use.

VST takes advertizing dollars form the surgeons in Mexico, that is what pays for this site.

So, I can use this free site to talk about anything, except to trash a surgeon/programme.

Seems fair and reasonable to me.

I get that some people have an "agenda". I get that you absolutely should not make a surgery decision based on soley what you read here.

I think the remaining value outweighs the minus of the trashing of any Doctor. I do not think horror stories does any good for any one. Every patient, in the US is told of the possible complications of any surgery before the operation and has to sign a release form stating they have been advised. There are possible complications with this surgery no matter where you get it done.

I value this board in dealing with what ever complications arise in any one persons recovery. To be able to come here anytime night or day and get a response to a concern is truly a great asset and relief.

I suggest we all look at what good comes from this availability and move on in that vein. Accept the necessary limitations of this board for the value recieved.

This is of course my very own "never to be humble opinion". Please laugh here. or at least chuckle.

[MINI-Me 196]

This is of course my very own "never to be humble opinion". Please laugh here. or at least chuckle.

:lol0: :001_tt2:

:biggrin0: :lol0: :001_tt2: :crying: :biggrin0: :lol0: :001_tt2: :mad: :biggrin0: :lol0: :001_tt2: :001_rolleyes: :biggrin0:

I do know what you mean. Understand the limitations and move forward. I am also glad to know that there is removal of negative comments about surgeons since it helps me to be a better consumer.

I value this board also - it's been great to get so many options, opinions, and thoughts of people who have had or are considering the surgery. Thanks!

Edited January 22, 2010 by MINI-Me

[Tracy46545 6]

I think the easy answer is to post that you had a positive or a negative experience and allow people that are interested to contact you via email. That way the board doesn't get dragged into negativity and name calling and it's between the person having the experience and the person who wants to know about it.

[Oregondaisy 2,019]

So if someone has a horrible experience,

how are you supposed to email them if

their post is removed when they try

to share about their experience?

[Tracy46545 6]

OregonDaisy,

I guess I was thinking the moderators could offer up that information when they remove the post IF the poster wants to allow people to contact them privately. It doesn't happen that often so it shouldn't be that big of a step. Also, a simple caution "sticky" could be added to the top of the forum providing information that posts could be removed if they are deemed to be too negative.