KateinMichigan

I am 2 month post op this surgery and doing wonderful!!!!!

Wow! I’m so glad to hear this worked for you! Could you share the results? How bad was your GERD? Are you off all PPI’s now?

I know this is a year plus after the original post but I have had the ligament wrap done . It is amazing!

I sent you an email with my phone number. Please text if you get the chance. I’m seeing 3 doctors in the next 2 weeks and thought we could share research!

Issue of GERD with sleeve is definitely there. There are also some surgical complications that would hover our heads. But that is the reason why surgeons and doctors opt for surgery on the "pros outweighs the cons" concept.
If you're worried of sleeve giving your GERD, look at the bypass option. Bypass is even used for long term GERD cure. There are also people on the forum who have had revision from sleeve to bypass because of GERD. So it isn't like you're stuck with having GERD for lifetime. You can do your research on bypass or if your mind is set on VSG, ask your doctor the options of PPI, revision to bypass etc etc etc if you end up with GERD-y complication.
Good luck.

Very well put!
I agree that if you physically can't function or get around, then, by all means, get surgery!! Though for me, at 30 years old kindergarten teacher who was medically "healthy." It wasn't the right choice!! I would take being a thick size 18 over all the complications from acid reflux. I just wasn't told the severity in which the complications could be. It pisses me off!!

AMEN. And women get if at a far higher percentage - so 35% is a bit low for us ladies.
My biggest mistake was coming on here before surgery and only wanting to hear the success stories. I wish I would have asked - "are you currently on any reflux medications?" You'd be surprised by how many people are on high doses of PPI's and singing the surgery praises. I'm a 17 year vet, I know the truth, and I was a lucky one - I didn't have it so bad that I had to get a bypass.
These early praisers might not have experienced the PPI side effects yet. The Iron infusions, the emergency room visits for kidney stones, the energy crashes, the daily nausea, etc. You can't undo or fix or medicate this...I've been searching for years.
Listen - my sister is "fat" like I was. She didn't have the surgery. She is still fat, and is prediabetic...but her last 17 years have full and happy. She's enjoyed life, traveled, enjoyed her career, found and maintained a loving husband, enjoyed life with her children, etc. Here laugh is real, and deep ... I miss having that.
I couldn't play with my kids a lot - too tired. I couldn't enjoy eating with them - not really. I was in the emergency room this christmas with kidney stones - again. Several times in the ER when my iron plummeted and needed an infusion (I take all my Vitamins - doesn't matter). I vomited out the window on my husbands birthday because my PPI failed and I forgot my tums.
If I could trade my size 2 body for her size 24, I would in a heartbeat. I sometimes get someone saying "aren't you glad you got the surgery - you'd be like your sister if you didn't". They always get a shocking earful.
Now if you are unable to get out of bed, or walk, or function - get the surgery!!!! But be careful of the cheerleaders, especially those who are still trying to convince themselves that they "made the right choice". Many here are freshly out and still in the honeymoon stage. I remember that stage - lol.

Ok. Just asking a question here....... since your surgery was 17years ago. Is it possible they have Perfected this surgery since you had it done? I've really been studying this surgery. ( I'm one to ask tons of questions) the info I get they are perfecting this procedure
My surgeon told me about chances of acid reflux after surgery. He's been very up front about some complications.

AMEN. And women get if at a far higher percentage - so 35% is a bit low for us ladies.
My biggest mistake was coming on here before surgery and only wanting to hear the success stories. I wish I would have asked - "are you currently on any reflux medications?" You'd be surprised by how many people are on high doses of PPI's and singing the surgery praises. I'm a 17 year vet, I know the truth, and I was a lucky one - I didn't have it so bad that I had to get a bypass.
These early praisers might not have experienced the PPI side effects yet. The Iron infusions, the emergency room visits for kidney stones, the energy crashes, the daily nausea, etc. You can't undo or fix or medicate this...I've been searching for years.
Listen - my sister is "fat" like I was. She didn't have the surgery. She is still fat, and is prediabetic...but her last 17 years have full and happy. She's enjoyed life, traveled, enjoyed her career, found and maintained a loving husband, enjoyed life with her children, etc. Here laugh is real, and deep ... I miss having that.
I couldn't play with my kids a lot - too tired. I couldn't enjoy eating with them - not really. I was in the emergency room this christmas with kidney stones - again. Several times in the ER when my iron plummeted and needed an infusion (I take all my Vitamins - doesn't matter). I vomited out the window on my husbands birthday because my PPI failed and I forgot my tums.
If I could trade my size 2 body for her size 24, I would in a heartbeat. I sometimes get someone saying "aren't you glad you got the surgery - you'd be like your sister if you didn't". They always get a shocking earful.
Now if you are unable to get out of bed, or walk, or function - get the surgery!!!! But be careful of the cheerleaders, especially those who are still trying to convince themselves that they "made the right choice". Many here are freshly out and still in the honeymoon stage. I remember that stage - lol.

🤦‍♀️
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31279562/#:~:text=Background%3A The development of gastroesophageal,LSG is up to 35%.
35% is more than 1/3 of sleeve patients. That seems significant to me. And yes, it's not typical GERD.
Please stop being so condescending on these posts. I've noticed that even via text you are very condescending. The point of these threads is to be informative and supportive. It's not my surgery vs your surgery, etc. We're sharing information (often our personal experiences from years of living with weight loss surgery) to allow people to make informed decisions and to sit back and type, "GERD, yes, but to the point you mention, absolutely not. I would say it is extremely rare and the medical professionals I spoke to confirm that."
It is not rare. When patients experience post weight loss surgery GERD it is not typical. The strongest PPI's on a double dose doesn't touch it.

Let’s not pressure anyone into a surgery with risks. This isn’t “treatable” GERD. Many convert from a VSG to a bypass because the “gerd” is that bad. (A simple search here will show you what kind of GERD this is.) in fact, I don’t thing they should call it GERD at all. It’s like calling a “cluster headache” just a headache.
I do agree with one thing - if obesity is killing you - get the surgery (the risk makes sense). If it’s not, then pass.
For some weird reason, men aren’t experiencing this sort of GERD at the same rate or intensity - (Google 2022 study). Best of luck with whatever you choose.
This is one time when you need to look at overall statistics- not individual experiences. Not even mine. If you’re OK with a 40% chance of horrible acid reflux (I never experienced it until after surgery) because your health is failing you - then I completely understand that. But it’s not a “pop a few tums” sort of GERD. Google long term PPI use.

A new 2022 study was just published about results 6 months out. 20% of men /40% of women end up with reflux. This is not the reflux you think you know. This is a sip of Water needs meds /and or tums. If you’re just fat, but relatively healthy - this isn’t for you. I regret it. If you’re going to die without it - then YES - get it.

If you have kids, jumping and playing with them gets risky - so does most exercise. Yes, you might get lucky and be part of the 60% - but those aren’t great odds….and many get reflux a few years later, and this study is only 6 months out.

Many are ok taking the PPI medication because it seems to do the trick and doctors just want you out of their hair.< br />
The meds are a huge cancer risk and makes many nauseous. I’ve been nauseous for 17 years!
I’m thin, but have been sickly the entire time. I so miss the “fat” me. I had to leave a profession I loved, am always exhausted, need Iron infusions, etc.…search “iron infusions”, “vsg revision”, . “gerd”in here.
I find the people who are most happy with vSG are people who were losing their life to obesity. if you’re just “fat”, but can walk, work, love, play, etc. - don’t do it.

Hi! I just thought about checking this thread yesterday, to see how everyone's doing. I am doing GREAT! It is SO NICE to be able to eat without vomiting, lie down/sleep without being awash in stomach acid, and to basically live like a normal person again. My daughter (she's almost 28) and I took a quick trip to Disney before she started grad school and it was wonderful! I could eat and drink in all our favorite places and not be sick! I'm eating less than I had been and slowly losing weight, too. I guess the surgery was enough of a change to my insides that it was like a "reset" or something- but I have that obvious "full" feeling again and am doing better with my weight management. NOW I have to get back into the gym regularly, something that ended when Covid hit and I just haven't re-established the habit yet. Hope you all are doing well!

Happy Birthday!!! Nachos and a beer without a side of Acid - lol. Sounds glorious.

Had my HH fixed as well and I really have done well. 6th of July was my surgery and dr noticed it in the OR and fixed. Happy with it too !

Yes, I was about 250 pounds when my horse refused a jump and I sailed off, flipped end for end....and landed like a sack of potatoes with a massive thud. Had the wind knocked out, a concussion, shock, the works. Very tall draft-horse cross. Ouch!
When your doctor described that coorelation, he might have been talking about people who develop hiatal hernia from chronic overeating....already having behaviors that are difficult to change. And this might have been a *part* of why my diaphragm gave up...because perhaps I'd weakened it with chronic overeating....BUT, the extent of my hernia was much more likely to have been caused more by the trauma.
You CAN give yourself hiatal hernia from chronically overeating. It makes perfect sense that if you routinely continue to eat past an uncomtortable "full" sensation, that might coorelate with reduced success.

HI!
My surgeon is a GREAT bariatric surgeon, as far as doing the surgery, but she isn't on top of much regarding the nutritional aspects of the program. I finally called one of the nutritionists associated with the bariatric program. She said it's not uncommon for people to have more issues eating after the HH surgery than after the initial VGS surgery. She said that she thinks it's because when having VGS, there is that long internal suture line from forming the sleeve, but it's not connected or stitched to anything. With the HH repair, I've had my sleeve "tacked" to something internally, as well as mesh stitched into my diaphragm. Every time I breathe or swallow something, that all gets "pulled on" and that's what she thinks the pain is from, and also that the mesh repair narrows the opening in the diaphragm through which the esophagus passes. I don't know... I'm not a doctor and I don't play one on TV, hahaha, but it seems kind-of a reasonable explanation!
It's still a guessing game regarding eating. I eat Soup for dinner at least half the time; not so much fun in the middle of summer, but it's food. I make sure the veggies in it are really soft and I can mash them up. Sometimes I can tolerate crackers in the soup, also. No Pasta unless it's well mashed in sauce, but even then it's questionable. I mash up the macaroni in macaroni and cheese and it's OK, but when we had stuffed shells I only ate the filling and the cheese from the topping. No rice, no breads, even with a lot of butter. I had Cereal recently (Lucky Charms) but had to wait for it to get soft in the milk. eggs are OK, as is tuna salad and egg salad, but chicken salad today was disastrous. It's a different kind of pain than from the HH, more like a line of pain across the top of my chest. Salad is a no-no, has been all along, but right now I still struggle with ground meats (burger, turkey burger, etc). I do OK with corn on the cob, though, which is a gift as it's one of my favorite summer treats! I honestly never know what's going to sit well, although anything that is smooshed up in a gravy or sauce is usually OK, or meat that is fatty. I still have to take small bites and chew, chew, chew, but once it goes down, it STAYS down, which is a plus, and still NO GERD! Also no PPI, no tums, etc. I'm still not sure how any of this is supposed to go, but I am glad I had the HH repaired. I was tired of drowning in acid every evening and of vomiting up food daily.

You are absolutely correct that the shape of the sleeve stomach makes developing a hiatal hernia more likely later on than with a normal stomach. That is exactly what one of the research articles I found talking about hiatal hernias after sleeve surgery said.
I think the issue with people being surprised by a hernia repair during sleeve surgery is that sometimes sliding hernias are not detectable on the testing before surgery and are only discovered once the surgeon is actually looking at the stomach during the operation. I had no hernia repair during my sleeve surgery (which was in Dec 2016). I really don't think I had a hernia until about December 2020 (when I first noticed some weird symptoms that at the time I didn't understand but now in retrospect believe were from the hernia).

Your surgery must be coming up soon, so best of luck. Please do update us on how it goes.

Cont..
the new stomach is lighter and thinner, slides into the esophageal area because the new shape allows it to.
The seasoned docs now realize that the sleeve surgery actually causes this, so after they create the sleeve, they tighten the diaphragm so a hernia can’t slide up right away. (HH repair has a large fail rate).
why not be upfront about this? Why are so many waking up to the “hiatal hernia surprise!”

In recent years I’ve noticed a spike in the “Hiatal Hernia Surprise surgery” stories shared on the forums. That’s when you wake up to your surgeon telling you he fixed a “surprise hernia” while doing your sleeve. What gives?
My 15 years of suffering with GERD after VGS, (I never ate a Tums before sleeve) has lead me to extensive research on this topic. I’ve read ever medical paper, report, blog I can get my hands on. I’ve met with and spoken to MANY surgeons on this subject.
THEORY ABOUT “THE SURPRISE”
I have a sneaking suspicion that the sleeve surgery itself leads to a hernia in many patients. (See stats about De Novo GERD and VGS).
The new stomach is lighter and thinner, with more internal pressure and can now easily slide into the esophageal area past the diaphragm to create a HH because the new shape allows it to.
I wonder if VSG surgeon don’t want to scare patients with the stats (30-40% chance of GERD without HH repair), so they just throw in the “hernia surgery surprise” to skirt the conversation.
if this happened to you, please share the details- so many would benefit from your story. Knowledge is power!
For those who haven’t had it yet - have the convo with your surgeon- let’s eliminate the “surprise”.
I’m also sharing my journey to find a solution for those currently suffering from GERD after VSG.
Not sure why post VLS GERD is still the “Wild West”. So many different opinions on how to fix it - sheesh.
What I’ve been told to do by different surgeons over the years, and what I’ve learned:
1) “convert to rny”
This was an instant turn off, but I get why so many do it. The pain is that bad for some.
A seasoned WL surgeon recently told me the conversion to RNY is problematic long term (yet many still recommend it). He doesn’t do it anymore. He’s fixed hundreds of these HH post sleeve with a basic HH repair, no- and only had to covert 1 stubborn case.
He said the conversion often leads to gas, malabsorption, vomiting, exhaustion, nausea, with many converts still ending up with GERD!
If you’ve had the conversion and are a few years out - please share your experience.
2) “go with a partial wrap”
This particular Doc said he’d “figure out what was best to do once he was in there.” I lost all confidence in him with that last statement, but I didn’t even realize this was a possibility if your fundus has expanded.
3) “get the LINX”
I’m allergic to fake metals (I get hives), yet this particular surgeon was ready to slap this metal puppy around my esophagus. Luckily, the maker ( J&J) posted a warning on their site for sensitive skin types: “do NOT, under any circumstances, put this in your body”.
I might have considered it if I didn’t have the allergy, although it seems very problematic for some.
4) “get the ligamentum procedure with repair”
This is an old surgery for GERD that involves using your internal umbilical cord. Because it’s so new for WLS GERD, I asked the surgeon if one of his success stories could call me. He obliged. A very sweet women called me, and went on and on about how great the surgeon was. But then she told me she was still on PPI’s and now had chronic diarrhea and dumping syndrome…sooo…back to the drawing board.
5) “Get the basic HH repair”.
I’ve consulted with 3 seasoned WLS surgeons who are all on the same page (finally). These 3 say that they pull my stomach back into the right spot, tighten the diaphragm, and call it a day. One uses mesh, but the other 2 sited a recent research paper saying there is no advantage to mesh.
They all said I’d have a 80-90% chance of being able to go off the PPI’s. Sorta a fantasy promise- but I’m liking those odds.
Of course I’ve done my research and discovered the fail rate over the long term is high (30-40%) after 10 years. and I might have minor swallowing problems, and bloating- yea! But I can have it adjusted if it gets bad, so that’s reassuring.
So I’m going in with my eyes wide opened and doing the basic repair, I hope it works. The recovery is long and difficult, but my alternative is PPI’s that are cancerous.
Wish me luck and thanks for reading my rant:) I hope it helped a few of my Gerdy sisters, and if you’ve had the “surprise”, please share your experience!

Yep…just this past Thursday. After the doc came to visit me in recovery he said that I had a HH near my esophagus that they “saw” and repaired

Cont..
the new stomach is lighter and thinner, slides into the esophageal area because the new shape allows it to.
The seasoned docs now realize that the sleeve surgery actually causes this, so after they create the sleeve, they tighten the diaphragm so a hernia can’t slide up right away. (HH repair has a large fail rate).
why not be upfront about this? Why are so many waking up to the “hiatal hernia surprise!”

Hi-
My doctor did use mesh to repair the hernia opening, but didn't say how many stitches. I am not taking any PPIs, only took Tums once since the surgery (so almost 3 weeks). There is nothing in the surgical note about her having done any kind of touch-up on the sleeve. It's like the first few weeks when the sleeve was new in that I was on full liquids, finally worked up to a soft diet, but I can only eat a little bit before I get the "too much" signal from the sleeve. I have no GERD, no vomiting, no acid fumes, no block-like feeling in my chest, nothing. It's amazing. I have to pay close attention when I eat, take tiny bites, chew a LOT, and eat slowly. I can eat 3 bites of something and then on the 4th bite I am TOO FULL and it hurts; I definitely can feel the restriction from my sleeve again, which was something I was worried about. I was just out of town for a week at a family gathering (wedding and a memorial service, both postponed from originally scheduled due to covid) and I was able to eat much of the food being served. We were in New Orleans, so that is saying something! I just followed the rules for the soft diet and for mindful eating and it was OK, most of the time. Biggest challenge right now is staying hydrated, but that's always been an issue for me (even before having the sleeve surgery). I'm kind-of in awe how easy and life-changing this has been. All week I'd eat something and think WOW, I'm not throwing this up, it's staying down where it belongs!

So sorry to hear you ladies are going through this, can totally relate. I had RNY 3/20, had never had a hiatal hernia in my life and now one was discovered during an upper endoscopy earlier this week, 16 months post RNY. I’m totally baffled as to how this happened, not sure what my next steps can and will be. Right now Omeprazole every morning, being very careful. Hernia measures 2cm. Wish you all the best!

See my post on My sleeve experience - it’s long and detailed. The pluses - weight loss to goal, no Vitamin deficiencies. The negs - GERD!!!
Do it again? Tough to answer, because it’s been 15 years and I don’t know where I’d be if I didn’t have it. Dead? Massive Stroke? Or maybe a healthy, but fat 51 year old? Who knows? Lol.

Quality of life is severely diminished with GERD, but my friends have had the bypass, and that’s a tough road too. My advice? If your happy, healthy, but fat - don’t do anything. Wear beautiful clothes, don’t take yourself too seriously, laugh, enjoy your friends and your life!
If you’re suffering and the future is looking bleak, grill your doctor about GERD and find a surgeon that understands it and mitigates the risks. See my post for all the right questions!
I’d do the sleeve, but find the right surgeon. The ones who’ve been doing for over 20 years are the best - they know some tricks to avoid GERD, and they test you for GERD before surgery. If your surgeon doesn’t mention GERD or downplays it - RUN!