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[Christinamo7 4,041]

I don't necessarily think that the vets who have "disappeared" have been the (only) ones who have "sparked the issues"...I think there's probably plenty of blame to go around from both sides of any conversation that goes awry. I do think it's unfortunate that the vets who have disappeared did so, as they are undoubtedly the most knowledgeable having gone through quite a bit more of the process than me, and I learned a lot from the information that they offered.

hang around a bit more, things will settle down and there'll be a whole new batch of vets. Hopefully some of the old ones will miss things around here and wander back.

have you noticed that many of those who spark the issues tend to disappear also?

I'm certain that are other vets who may not have been directly involved in any of this and chose to stop posting with little to no interest in having to carefully word responses to avoid being offensive to anyone, and subsequently yelled at for it). What may sound "offensive" to one may not be to another and if we choose to mold the "model response" around only those who are easily offended, I think that's a dangerous game to play and lot of questions will either go unanswered, or perhaps some people just won't get the "push" that they need in certain situations. If vets are here to help and really, why else would they be here, yet they find themselves unable to address specific situations with responses that they feel are warranted for that specific situation, then there is no longer a reason for them to want to be here....so they go. Sadly, more than I would like to have seen go have done just that, and it's really unfortunate. Additionally, we automatically go after the offender, but I don't always think that's the right answer either. If a person is offended or doesn't care for a particular way his or her question is answered, rather than immediately going on the defensive, they just simply bring it to the other person's attention. "Thank you for taking the time to reply, however, i really am not comfortable with how you are responding". If it escalates beyond that, then that's the job of a moderator (IMHO) as the thread has gone off-point and serves no productive purpose any longer.

There's a difference between being straightforward and being outright rude and unhelpful, and I've seen it be "the fault" of both new and old members alike. I've seen threads recently where a new person asks a question, and a vet asks a clarifying, follow up question, a follow-up question that was completely legit and necessary to offer further assistance, and having the new person simply tell them to go away for "answering their question with a question". That's not the vet "sparking" that issue....so if we treat the vets a specific way, and then have others (not Alex -- he's been pretty universal in that his comments apply to all members as they should) tell the vets that they are the ones who need to watch their responses, why on earth would they want to stay for that. What are they getting out of that experience?

Not everything is "roses and candy and skipping through the meadows"...nor should it be...lol. This isn't an easy process or an easy change to make and sometimes you need to be "slapped upside the head" and told to get back on track. You might not want to hear it, but it also might be the only response you remember BECAUSE it p****d you off. Chances are, unless the response was just rude and belligerent, it probably p***d you off because the person responding was right on the money. If it's to the point where you truly are offended by a response or a response was rude and not helpful, and you just simply don't see the value in hearing from that person any longer, there is an ignore button that will solve it immediately.

Honestly, I don't know where to go for more advanced questions at this point so I've just been focused on helping as many new people as I can. I'm not interested in waiting for more vets....by the time that rolls around, I might be one myself and I'd rather not navigate this road on my own...that's what drew me to this community in the first place...so it would be nice if those values and benefits were still present...but they just aren't at the moment, and that's unfortunate.

There will never be 100% agreement on this issue, and personally I don't think there's much value in continuing the conversation much longer as it's starting to become nothing more than people "picking sides" and really not moving any closer to any type of solution to the problem....my 2 cents.

I actually meant that there are others (not vets) who spark issues and disappear. :-) Those of us who value having a place to discuss these issues have to learn to stay away from those types of inflammatory posts. it can be hard to spot them because we do want to help anyone we can along this journey.

[summerset 5,261]

@ I see what you mean regarding my second question.

I still don't understand the "inconsistent advice" part. For me inconsistent advice would be e. g. one veteran (or newbie) says "it's fine to eat X after four weeks, my program allowed for it" while another veteran (or newbie) says "no, don't do it, my program didn't allow for it".

That would be inconsistent advice for me. In this case obviously both are right (they did follow their program), yet the advice is inconsistent.

[summerset 5,261]

have you noticed that many of those who spark the issues tend to disappear also?

You mean they shit stir on purpose? Maybe. There are such people.

However, maybe being bashed one time is just enough for them. Start one thread that gets out of control when you're relatively new and you don't want to post again that much. You go elsewhere or lurk only.

For a long time user starting or participating in such a thread it might be the final straw that brakes the camel's back.

[Fredbear 397]

@ I see what you mean regarding my second question.

I still don't understand the "inconsistent advice" part. For me inconsistent advice would be e. g. one veteran (or newbie) says "it's fine to eat X after four weeks, my program allowed for it" while another veteran (or newbie) says "no, don't do it, my program didn't allow for it".

That would be inconsistent advice for me. In this case obviously both are right (they did follow their program), yet the advice is inconsistent.

The only medical advice appropriate on a message board is "ask your doctor." You're paying them specifically for care, and it is their duty to provide it. Use it!

All other advice here should be "this was/is/has been my experience."

I don't put up with emotional bullshit from anyone... I'm not here to soothe the mentally unstable or provide therapy; again, there are medical professionals you can pay for that.

Which means that I'm not going to play head games with the easily offended/those looking to be offended. Go play with your dumbass girlfriends if you need that drama.

And I have to disagree with Alex... tone is relatively easy to pick up in text. But "tone" isn't taught in English until 9th grade, and for many, if not most Americans it takes 13 years of their education (K-12) just to get to a 7th grade mastery of the language.

The trope that "tone is difficult" is just a way to disguise one's inability to write effectively... not to mention the reader's ability to comprehend the material (again, 13 years to attain 7 years of mastery).

In conclusion, I would simply recommend growing a thicker skin, and asking your doctor for real advice. For tips, message boards are fine, if you can learn to simply ignore the squawking hens.

"When all is said and done, usually more has been said than done. "

[OKCPirate 5,323]

I learned a long time ago, when it comes to responding to posts or giving any advice on WLS, all I can ever truthfully do is give my own experiences within a certain area....if I have no experience, then I have nothing to say.

I had the Lap Band procedure...I don't respond to threads concerning other procedures...How can I?

I haver no earthly idea who the people on this forum are, their personalities, medical conditions, mental and emotional state.

Nor do people know me....

So don't take anything I say as Gospel, but with a grain of salt, and remember what I say is only what I do or have done, and that does not make it right.

If you don't agree with I say or do, that's fine...I never expect it.

But it's also no reason to throw stones...

Listen to what everyone says, then draw your own conclusions, and pass it by your Dr.

If there is one pet-peeve I have about this forum, is when people will take the authority and proclaim "Thou shall not do BLah Blah Blah.."

If you do you will never be successful, you will surely fail.

If they started their proclamation with "this is my opinion" or "This is what I was taught" then that lightens it up a bit.

When I read one of these threads, I want so bad to jump in and say "I do that all the time...daily...and I consider myself one of the most successful people on this forum" !!!!

But I don't, at least not until counting to 100.

Every "opinion" has a "Alter Opinion"

That's what makes it interesting.

Hey when I say it I mean it